how much of a myth is mourinho's ability as a manager?

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop

I thought Ibrahimovic caused us problems when he went over to O'Shea.

The first few couple of times he did but then Sheasy realised he had to get really close to him, put in some very important tackles at key times.


His one on the halfway when they were breaking was superb - we about 6 players ahead of play. If that was Maicon we'd never hear the end of it.

I can't stand Mourinho's teams but there is something I think he deserves at least some credit for, and that is getting Chelsea's bunch of mercenary #@&%!s to play as a team and win two titles.

You only have to look at Scolari to see that, whilst having all that money does make things a lot easier, you still have to work at getting them to play for each other and not for themselves.

Originally Posted by denis lawless

plus the stuff he won in Scotland

That table is from 1990 onwards.

Originally Posted by dodger

That table is from 1990 onwards.

why have a cut off point

Originally Posted by Zorg

I can't stand Mourinho's teams but there is something I think he deserves at least some credit for, and that is getting Chelsea's bunch of mercenary #@&%!s to play as a team and win two titles.

You only have to look at Scolari to see that, whilst having all that money does make things a lot easier, you still have to work at getting them to play for each other and not for themselves.

I think that comes from what he does best which is motivation. Thought he was great at motivating and protecting his players at Chelsea. Seems to be doing something similar with Ibrahimovich as he did with Lampard by hyping him up to the max to get the best out of them.

Still, his football is dire and would hate to see him as United manager.

Originally Posted by denis lawless

why have a cut off point

I put it together last year at MNIK's request. It was to see who was most successful of the modern era and when I asked for a cut off he duggested 1990. It was orginally to show how realitively poor Wenger's record is, despite his press. Alex would have more pre '90 and Trappatoni would be much further up too. Thismakes it a bit fairer though as a lot of those managers weren't workign pre 1990.

Originally Posted by dodger

I put it together last year at MNIK's request. It was to see who was most successful of the modern era and when I asked for a cut off he duggested 1990. It was orginally to show how realitively poor Wenger's record is, despite his press. Alex would have more pre '90 and Trappatoni would be much further up too. Thismakes it a bit fairer though as a lot of those managers weren't workign pre 1990.

i think a full career record of all the top managers down the years would be an interesting read.....including the old boys like Busby, Shankly, Stein, Paisley.......

id put good money on Fergie being in the top 3 if not number 1

He is an excellent manager, I find it rather stupid to suggest otherwise.

You can try and belittle anyone's achievements if you can be arsed trying hard enough.

Originally Posted by borsuk

the porto win is impressive - the only time a genuine outsider has won it, after all - but we know that (a) he has a russian linesman and an american keeper to thank and (b) his team were a hideous bunch of cheating, whining, snidey @#%&!s. still, that is a good achievement.

I know you're summarising, but it's a bit harsh to ignore the domestic success and previous Uefa Cup win. The job he did at Porto was outstanding. Porto were a mess when he took over halfway through the season but he improved them instantly. They went from being the third best side in the country to running away with the title for the next two seasons, not to mention the well-documented European success.

The other aspect of this worthy of mention was that he re-built the team in a very short space of time. Pedro Emanuel, Paulo Ferreira, Nuno Valente, Maniche, Derlei etc were all Mourinho signings, all for minimal fees and all played a big role in his time there. He also re-established Jorge Costa and Vitor Baia into the side, who had been out of the picture at different times, and gave Ricardo Carvalho his first real run in the team.

They got lucky at Old Trafford, but they were the best side in the knockout phase of the competition that year and no doubt deserved to win it, even if it was a campaign where many of the big teams struggled. Overall, in the space of a little over two years he transformed Porto from the third best side in Portugal to back-to-back title winners and Uefa Cup and Champions League winners. On a modest budget. It was a quite incredible achievement.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I know you're summarising, but it's a bit harsh to ignore the domestic success and previous Uefa Cup win. The job he did at Porto was outstanding. Porto were a mess when he took over halfway through the season but he improved them instantly. They went from being the third best side in the country to running away with the title for the next two seasons, not to mention the well-documented European success.

The other aspect of this worthy of mention was that he re-built the team in a very short space of time. Pedro Emanuel, Paulo Ferreira, Nuno Valente, Maniche, Derlei etc were all Mourinho signings, all for minimal fees and all played a big role in his time there. He also re-established Jorge Costa and Vitor Baia into the side, who had been out of the picture at different times, and gave Ricardo Carvalho his first real run in the team.

They got lucky at Old Trafford, but they were the best side in the knockout phase of the competition that year and no doubt deserved to win it, even if it was a campaign where many of the big teams struggled. Overall, in the space of a little over two years he transformed Porto from the third best side in Portugal to back-to-back title winners and Uefa Cup and Champions League winners. On a modest budget. It was a quite incredible achievement.

Of course, them being punished for dodgy stuff at that time doesn't matter....

Originally Posted by Coracao

He is an excellent manager, I find it rather stupid to suggest otherwise.

.

He is, should never be united manager though.

you can't underestimate the power of luck in anyone's achievements.

if robins hadn't scored at forest fergie would have been out of the door. by the same token if scholes' perfectly good goal against porto hadn't been ruled out we probably wouldn't have seen mourinho at chelsea.

in short - lucky bastards all.

Scary manager. An assassin.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

He is, should never be united manager though.

Completely irrelevant to the topic.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Completely irrelevant to the topic.

Not completely irrelevant, tangential maybe.

He was good enough to get a draw against a team ten times better than his. That's my worry.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

Not completely irrelevant, tangential maybe.

Irrelevant.

The discussion is on his ability to manage and succeed, not his style of play.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Irrelevant.

The discussion is on his ability to manage and succeed, not his style of play.

I said he was an excellent manager in that very point which seems to me very relevant and never mentioned his style of play? Dunno why this has got you all uppity?

He's got the finest laundry basket in world football, i'll give him that much.

Originally Posted by irk

if robins hadn't scored at forest fergie would have been out of the door.

I just don't believe that. Charlton has stated categorically that they never discussed it because of the work Ferie was doing on the youth set-up etc. He revolutionised the club, it was such a far cry from Atkinsons' 'just go and get pissed' approach that they never considered getting rid.
Charlton has said this several times and was so convincing I find it hard to believe he's such a good liar.

It's so often stated that it's become accepted as fact.