Apprently Fergie's mind games are a myth

A myth formulated by the media, and infact, SAF really doesn't know what he's doing.

Would have expected to read something like this on a liverpool forum, not a newspaper.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog...son-mind-games

History, it's no great revelation to report, is written by the victors. So the story of the denouement to the 1995/96 Premiership battle between Manchester United and Newcastle is told like this.

After seeing his team squeeze past a resolute Leeds, Alex Ferguson craftily wondered aloud whether Howard Wilkinson's struggling side would try as hard against Newcastle in their upcoming fixture. Kevin Keegan's side would win that game but, incandescent with post-match rage, the Newcastle boss responded to Ferguson's slight on Leeds by losing the place completely live on national television. Newcastle subsequently self-combusted and Ferguson, credited with unsettling his rival at a crucial stage of the season, scuttled off with the prize. All hail the master of mind manipulation, the patriarch of paranormal prompting, the supreme sovereign of soccer-centric psychological suggestion.

It's a lovely story, that, the way it pans out. Sadly, whether it stands up to scrutiny is another matter. Here's another way of telling it.

After seeing his team squeeze past a resolute Leeds, Ferguson had good reason to be worried. United had previously just lost at Southampton, and followed that performance by making a right old meal of it against Wilkinson's struggling side, who were down to 10 men for 73 minutes – and with defender Lucas Radebe in goal after keeper Mark Beeney had been sent off. United were "muddled and nondescript", reported the Guardian's legendary football correspondent David Lacey. "Carlton Palmer was the best player on the field," read Lacey's damning verdict the day after, "which said much about the poverty of Manchester United's football as it did for Palmer's rare display of vision and consistently good passing." Roy Keane had hauled his men out of bother with a slightly fortuitous late winner, latching on to Paul Scholes's deflected shot, but there was no doubting United had mislaid their form at exactly the wrong time of the campaign.

After the match, Ferguson gave the interview that would eventually send Keegan into meltdown. "I can't understand the Leeds players," his diatribe began. "I'm absolutely in support of their manager. He doesn't deserve his players. If they had played like that all season they'd be near the top. They raised their game because they were playing Manchester United. It was pathetic. I think we can accept any club coming here and trying their hardest, so long as they do it every week."

That interview, and subsequent events, effectively sealed Ferguson's status as football's king of mind games, but it is scattergun at best. Like his first indigo-hued attack on Arsène Wenger after a 3-2 home defeat to Derby in April 1997 – "Wenger has been in Japan … he doesn't know anything about English football … he's at a big club, well, they used to be a big club, Arsenal … he should keep his mouth shut, firmly shut" – it seemed primarily designed to deflect attention away from a poor performance. Certainly it fails to stand up as part of a carefully considered psychological masterplan – a reading that sits uneasily with the now-common perception of a mind-games guru toying with a hapless foe, idly flicking chess pieces around a board while stroking a cat. In fact, given his response to Southampton's first-half three-goal salvo the weekend before – a wholly irrational half-time decision to order his side back out in different-coloured shirts – it could be argued that Fergie seemed to be cracking a wee bit himself.

Anyway, by this stage, Newcastle were already buckling under the pressure of trying to bring the title to St James' Park for the first time since 1927: they had lost their last three away games, at Arsenal, at Liverpool in that game, and at Blackburn. So whether Ferguson's remarks and Keegan's subsequent outburst accelerated an already worrying trend for Newcastle should – but somehow doesn't – remain a moot point.

Hindsight distorts, especially as Newcastle drew their last two games, so it's also easy to forget that, at the time, some even questioned the sagacity of Fergie's gambit, such as it was. "Ferguson's tactics could backfire on him," opined Stephen Smith, a chartered psychologist specialising in sports personalities, in the Guardian a couple of days after Keegan flipped his lid on Sky. "Monday's outburst may act as a catharsis … if Ferguson's comments were a calculated manoeuvre, it has met with only limited success … Newcastle's players now have a vital role. They must have noted the effect this has had on their likeable and honest manager … if they feel Keegan has been unfairly treated by their common foe, their Goliath, it could be the best spur they have for greater motivation and team cohesiveness."

Of course Newcastle's players failed to respond as Smith suggested they might, but it would be wrong to dismiss his analysis as woefully wide of the mark. Because the year before, Fergie's Amazing Mind Games had exactly that effect on the opposition. Having already stated that "Blackburn will have to finish like Devon Loch to give us any chance", Ferguson over-egged the pudding, going on to question the "bottle" of Kenny Dalglish's side. Rovers did indeed stumble badly as they approached the line, but Ferguson's "bottle" remark would galvanise the side in a crucial late-season fixture against Newcastle.

Rovers won that game – the penultimate of a season that would eventually be decided by one point – by one goal to nil, despite Newcastle battering away at them for the majority of the match. Tim Flowers made five superlative saves, and after the game was happy to respond to Ferguson's taunts. "Don't talk to me about bottle," he told Sky, "don't talk to me about bottling it, cos that's bottle out there. That's quality players out there, giving their all … we're gonna fight to the death, cos we've got bottle … all we can say is we'll give exactly what we've given today, exactly what we've given all season, and that's 100% bottle." Bottle, bottle, bottle, bottle, bottle. Fergie's remarks, as Smith suggested they could have been for Newcastle, had certainly been a "spur for greater motivation and team cohesiveness" to Blackburn. The result: Manchester United 0 Blackburn Rovers 1 (Ferguson og).

It's a thin line between genius and folly. But somehow Ferguson's reputation as psychological mastermind wins out whatever occurs. Perhaps mindful that his goading appeared to affect the combustible Keegan, but had no purchase whatsoever on the more measured Dalglish. Ferguson has, contrary to received wisdom, rarely tried it on since. Playground retorts don't get under the skin of sensible grown-ups – and so his spats with Wenger and Jose Mourinho, while amusing distractions for sure, were usually harmless blasts of hot air, bouts of media showboating that failed to change the course of a single season. In fact, the one time Fergie did seriously attempt to stir up a hornet's nest, ahead of United's 2003 Champions League quarter-final with Real Madrid – by accusing Uefa of fixing a "nice draw" for Spanish and Italian sides, while demanding a "strong" referee to keep an eye on Real's "dirty tricks" – he came a terrible cropper, Real steamrollering his team 3-1 at the Bernabeu before the original Ronaldo came to Old Trafford and slotted away an outrageous hat-trick in a 4-3 United win that flattered the home side immensely.

And yet the myth persists, to the point that one only has to imagine how the headlines of the past week would have played had Ferguson quietly read out some gently amusing pre-written pot-stirring words, and Rafael Benítez responded by resorting to personal abuse and branding his opponent "angry" and "disturbed". This ever-so-tedious spat was immediately filed under Mind Games, so the feeling persists that, either way, Fergie was going to be hailed the winner.

Thing is, though, whose fault is that? Or, indeed, any of this? Not Ferguson's. It's the media who are to blame for propagating this myth, a result of the unhinged importance placed on jabberings made during the immediate aftermaths of hotly contested games, or musings made to fill the dead-air time of Friday-afternoon press conferences. And it makes you wonder: who has really lost out as a result of these supposed mind games? Keegan? (Newcastle were shot through anyway.) Benítez? (Nobody knows how that will pan out, at least until United aren't awarded a penalty for the next three seasons.) Or could it be Ferguson himself?

Take one example: arguably the bravest thing one of the greatest managers in the history of British football has ever done is to wantonly dismantle his first great United side – a Double-winning one to boot – and fill his teamsheet with kids: in a Manchester Evening News poll that summer, more than half the respondents wanted Ferguson sacked. Then, in that new team's virgin season, Fergie led them to a then-unprecedented second Double. That achievement (along with Eric Cantona's remarkable contribution to United's successful run-in, but that's another story) is rarely recalled these days. Partly because Ferguson has won a few more league titles, a couple of European Cups, and a Treble since, so it doesn't seem to matter so much. But mainly because there's one thing, over everything else that happened that year, which everyone remembers the 1995/96 season for. That thing being? Yep, you got that straight.

So one of the most remarkable managerial decisions in English football has been dwarfed in the history books by a few throwaway lines uttered into a microphone at the heat of the moment. Well, there's only one response anyone in their right mind should give to that: "I would love it if this myth could be laid to rest for ever. Love it."

I do think it's ridiculously overstated in the press. He plants little comments in from time to time, nothing more. The press would have you believe he spends more time on constructing his mind games than he does on tactics and strategy.

Mind games, load of shite. Just a bunch of old men grumbling about eachother really.

Not as big a load of shite as this (from the same paper). Tevez the new Cantona???

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog...chester-united

Rooney's absence makes room for new Cantona to emerge

Wayne Rooney's injury gives the Berbatov-Tevez pairing a chance to strut its stuff


Comments (…)
Carlos Tevez and Dimitar Berbatov: heirs to Eric Cantona? Photograph: Matthew Peters/Joe Giddens/Getty/Empics



Norman Whiteside was never quite "the new George Best" while the headlines labelling Terry Venables as "the new *Duncan Edwards" seem more ridiculous now than they did in 1958. However, *Manchester United's immediate future rests on two men labelled "the new *Cantona". Sir Alex Ferguson has compared at least four of his strikers to the mercurial Frenchman but this awkward mantle has been one the United manager has consistently attempted to place on the shoulders of Dimitar Berbatov and Carlos Tevez.


With Wayne Rooney likely to be absent for the best part of a month, much depends on how well these two Cantonas start together – something they have done only half-a-dozen times. Rooney will not miss any stand-out fixtures – although Upton Park, where United go on 8 February, is a venue that has inflicted more pain on Ferguson than almost any other. But, as Chelsea discovered when taking on Fulham and Southend without their suspended captain John Terry, lesser fixtures are sometimes the most dangerous.


The chances that came their way against Wigan on Wednesday night summed up the strikers' contrasting styles. Tevez, put clean through, pounded towards the keeper, Chris Kirkland, his face contorted by effort and determination, and ended up flat on his stomach. Berbatov struck languidly from the edge of the area with the outside of his boot and the ball drifted just past the post. It was like comparing a bludgeon from Ian Botham's broadsword bat with a David Gower cover drive. It might be a perfect combination.


Berbatov is not as loved as Tevez and Rooney at Old Trafford, perhaps because he does not hurl himself into a game as they do – although, like his one-time team-mate at Tottenham, Robbie Keane, the Bulgarian is a forward whose effectiveness improves as a season nears its business phase. Of the 52 goals he scored in his last two full seasons, 38 came after the beginning of December.


"When you pay a lot of money for a player, he invariably comes underclose scrutiny," Ferguson said. "It happened to Juan Veron and Rio Ferdinand, and *Dimitar has also suffered the impatience of people when a new guy makes a big move. At Tottenham he orchestrated most of their play and, if at times he has looked a bit isolated, it was because our players needed to adjust to him as much as he needed to learn our ways. I have a feeling we are about to see the best of Berbatov."


Tevez is more obviously like Cantona, not just in his rapport with the Stretford End but in his habit of scoring crucial, often desperately late, goals. This season is one that is already carrying echoes of United's epic pursuit of Newcastle in 1995-96. The Liverpool side they chase have, like Kevin Keegan's team, precious little collective experience of winning championships, a home crowd whose passion is not always helpful and are led by a manager Ferguson can get at mentally.


In 1996 Manchester United won the title with seven 1-0 victories in the closing three months of the campaign and in five of those matches it was Cantona who scored the decisive goal. One-nil victories are becoming United's foundation for this campaign – they have been outscored by five Premier League clubs this season.


Tevez's goal at Stoke on Boxing Day was typical of his contribution last season in that it was late and decisive. At Blackburn and Spurs last year, he salvaged a draw at the death; against Liverpool and Birmingham his was the only goal. Berbatov, apart from his goal in the 1-0 over Middlesbrough, tends to score in landslide wins.


Part of Cantona's appeal was his sense of separateness and there is something of that about Tevez, particularly his refusal to have plastic surgery for the scars he sustained when boiling water was knocked over him as a child. "They make me who I am," he remarked.


Critically, Ferguson said Cantona was curiously short of self-confidence. "He needed nourishing," Ferguson recalled. This does not appear to apply to Tevez, who has seemed bewildered by United's inability to offer him a contract with his loan deal expiring inside six months.


Last summer, the chief executive David Gill claimed a new contract for the Argentine was a priority but in recent interviews, Tevez suggested this had changed. United have five months to nourish him or see him go with the same suddenness as that with which Cantona took his leave.

'Roy Keane had hauled his men out of bother with a slightly fortuitous late winner, latching on to Paul Scholes's deflected shot'



Didn't Keane pick up the ball outside the box, work it onto his right foot and fire it into the bottom corner from the edge of the box?

Hardly fortuitous.

Fergie said what he said about Leeds to get them to play as valiantly against Newcastle. That was all. I'm sure he never expected or wanted Keegan to lose it on air.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

I do think it's ridiculously overstated in the press. He plants little comments in from time to time, nothing more. The press would have you believe he spends more time on constructing his mind games than he does on tactics and strategy.

Totally agree.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

The press would have you believe he spends more time on constructing his mind games than he does on tactics and strategy.

According to the clowns in the English press (not to mention the @#%&!s at RI), Ferguson has £#%&! all idea about tactics or strategy. That's why we've won as little as we have...

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

'Roy Keane had hauled his men out of bother with a slightly fortuitous late winner, latching on to Paul Scholes's deflected shot'



Didn't Keane pick up the ball outside the box, work it onto his right foot and fire it into the bottom corner from the edge of the box?

Hardly fortuitous.

Fergie said what he said about Leeds to get them to play as valiantly against Newcastle. That was all. I'm sure he never expected or wanted Keegan to lose it on air.

Yup. And there was a certain amount of understandable frustration from Fergie too. Leeds had been shite for months in the run up and they'd even been shite and apathetic in the League Cup Final a few weeks before. They just weren't interested and deservedly lost 3-0 to Villa. They had a real chance of silverware back when it was more highly rated than it is now and no one gave a shite.

here's David Lacey of the Guardian's verdict

In the trophy's 36-year history there have been few more distinguished winners than Aston Villa, and even fewer teams so thoroughly beaten as were Leeds United yesterday.

Leeds were not expected to win, but neither were they expected to lose quite so limply. Had yesterday's guest of honour, Virginia Bottomley, had anything to do with it Leeds might have been closed at half-time. By then the purpose of their existence was certainly open to question.

Then three weeks later they come to OT and put up a really strong performance. It's difficult to escape the conclusion that it was because it was United.

Originally Posted by The Watcher

According to the clowns in the English press (not to mention the @#%&!s at RI), Ferguson has £#%&! all idea about tactics or strategy. That's why we've won as little as we have...

That always amazes me. The amount of tactical battles he wins (last week against Chelsea being another) that go completely without comment is laughable. He just doesn't have that kind of image. He's always pegged as an old school 'hairdryer' manager. He can't be a good tactician because he doesn't stand on the touchline with an earpiece making stupid, faggy hand gestures every five seconds. And he doesn't write things down. All the great managers write things down on pre-formatted formation sheets, dontchaknow?

I think the reason I admire Fergie the most is that he has developed and moved along with the game within the last 20 years. A lot of managers have their time, but the game moves on and leaves them behind, but the fact that Fergie moved along with it and continues to be successful is incredible.

Or it might be because the game is corrupt and he's a bully. I'm not sure.

mind games are a nonsense. the truth is fergie handles the pressure of being at the top, staying at the top and - crucially - getting back to the top when you slip phenomenally well, while wenger, mourinho and benitez find it hard to take. benitez, like mourinho, was all sweetness and light when things were going well - but fergie was controlled and calm even when the dippers were 8 points clear. but as united inexorably reel them in benitez's reactions are rather less controlled, while fergie remains the in control of himself.

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

Yup. And there was a certain amount of understandable frustration from Fergie too. Leeds had been shite for months in the run up and they'd even been shite and apathetic in the League Cup Final a few weeks before. They just weren't interested and deservedly lost 3-0 to Villa. They had a real chance of silverware back when it was more highly rated than it is now and no one gave a shite.

here's David Lacey of the Guardian's verdict



Then three weeks later they come to OT and put up a really strong performance. It's difficult to escape the conclusion that it was because it was United.

That too. People would have you believe that it was all acting and nothing more than an attempt to rile Keegan. I'm sure that was in the back of his mind, but at the forefront is a genuine feeling that that was the case. He's not a robot! He does get upset and frustrated like anyone else.

I take everything Fergie says with a pinch of salt, especially out of the post-match heat of the moment, but not everything he says is this wiley constructed timebomb.

Originally Posted by The Watcher

According to the clowns in the English press (not to mention the @#%&!s at RI), Ferguson has £#%&! all idea about tactics or strategy. That's why we've won as little as we have...

alzhy alex, wasn't it?

shocking stuff from the self-style 'voice of the fans'.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

That always amazes me. The amount of tactical battles he wins (last week against Chelsea being another) that go completely without comment is laughable. He just doesn't have that kind of image. He's always pegged as an old school 'hairdryer' manager. He can't be a good tactician because he doesn't stand on the touchline with an earpiece making stupid, faggy hand gestures every five seconds. And he doesn't write things down. All the great managers write things down on pre-formatted formation sheets, dontchaknow?

I think the reason I admire Fergie the most is that he has developed and moved along with the game within the last 20 years. A lot of managers have their time, but the game moves on and leaves them behind, but the fact that Fergie moved along with it and continues to be successful is incredible.

Or it might be because the game is corrupt and he's a bully. I'm not sure.

Great post.

It's all an agenda with these @#%&!s, init? They (the press) decided he didn't have it "tactically" after our early European exits and have gone on about it ever since. All the while, the likes of Wenger (never won a European trophy), Benitez etc are described as tactical geniuses. In Benitez case in particular it's based on what...a phantom goal in the 2005 semi? £#%&!ing rubbish.

Sir Alex is far and away the greatest manager British football has ever seen. The teams he's built, the trophies, the opponents he's seen off - and all with teams that played the right way. Amazing.

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

alzhy alex, wasn't it?

shocking stuff from the self-style 'voice of the fans'.

They had plenty. But they usually settled for "@#%&!". A word they've used in the past to describe Sir Bobby too. The £#%&!ing @#%&!s should piss off to Elland Road, there's plenty there to agree with them.

Originally Posted by The Watcher

Great post.

It's all an agenda with these @#%&!s, init? They (the press) decided he didn't have it "tactically" after our early European exits and have gone on about it ever since. All the while, the likes of Wenger (never won a European trophy), Benitez etc are described as tactical geniuses. In Benitez case in particular it's based on what...a phantom goal in the 2005 semi? £#%&!ing rubbish.

Sir Alex is far and away the greatest manager British football has ever seen. The teams he's built, the trophies, the opponents he's seen off - and all with teams that played the right way. Amazing.

He is amazing. We'll realise this more once he goes. As you say, the opposing managers he's seen off is incredible. I really thought he'd met his match with Mourinho and Roman's millions. José certainly won more battles with Fergie, but Fergie has won the war.
It hasn't happened easily for him either. Around 2001ish he seemed to realise that rock 'em sock 'em United couldn't compete in Europe and the game was moving on. It was becoming more technical and tactical and he had to change. He initially got it wrong with Veron and the whole system change and it appeared that a domestic power switch was occurring too. But he was open minded enough to take on new systems, new coaches, new styles of play and determined enough to not let initial failures deter him. Even the 'barren' years without a title still saw Cup success and comfortable Champions League qualification.
This all happening to a guy in his 60s too. Most managers would've given up and lamented how the game has changed. He's won everything there was to win and he could've left the game with no regrets. But he came through it.
Here we are now, World Champions again, the team to beat again and with a bright, young, vibrant team and he's STILL going. Winning little battles, winning major wars and showing no signs of stopping.

Incredible. The cheating bastard.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

He is amazing. We'll realise this more once he goes. As you say, the opposing managers he's seen off is incredible. I really thought he'd met his match with Mourinho and Roman's millions. José certainly won more battles with Fergie, but Fergie has won the war.
It hasn't happened easily for him either. Around 2001ish he seemed to realise that rock 'em sock 'em United couldn't compete in Europe and the game was moving on. It was becoming more technical and tactical and he had to change. He initially got it wrong with Veron and the whole system change and it appeared that a domestic power switch was occurring too. But he was open minded enough to take on new systems, new coaches, new styles of play and determined enough to not let initial failures deter him. Even the 'barren' years without a title still saw Cup success and comfortable Champions League qualification.
This all happening to a guy in his 60s too. Most managers would've given up and lamented how the game has changed. He's won everything there was to win and he could've left the game with no regrets. But he came through it.
Here we are now, World Champions again, the team to beat again and with a bright, young, vibrant team and he's STILL going. Winning little battles, winning major wars and showing no signs of stopping.

Incredible. The cheating bastard.

I've got Mark Beeney's autograph

Roy Keane had hauled his men out of bother with a slightly fortuitous late winner, latching on to Paul Scholes's deflected shot,

2:10 on here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVk9KF0sumQ

That Keane vid Legend.

I used to hate that strpiey blue away top though.Awful.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

That always amazes me. The amount of tactical battles he wins (last week against Chelsea being another) that go completely without comment is laughable. He just doesn't have that kind of image. He's always pegged as an old school 'hairdryer' manager. He can't be a good tactician because he doesn't stand on the touchline with an earpiece making stupid, faggy hand gestures every five seconds. And he doesn't write things down. All the great managers write things down on pre-formatted formation sheets, dontchaknow?

I think the reason I admire Fergie the most is that he has developed and moved along with the game within the last 20 years. A lot of managers have their time, but the game moves on and leaves them behind, but the fact that Fergie moved along with it and continues to be successful is incredible.

Or it might be because the game is corrupt and he's a bully. I'm not sure.

i couldn't agree more. in fact...

http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showpo...9&postcount=29