So what should the team have been in the final

Originally Posted by borsuk

true.

the side i put up earlier was a joke but with an element of truth in it: this is almost certainly the best 11 barca have ever had, perhaps the best 11 any side has ever had, and it should be compared with our best-ever side, which is certainly not this one. our '99 side would have given them a game, or the '68 side, or the babes, had they reached maturity. that's the kind of comparisons you're looking at because in ten years barca fans will be looking back at this side in the same way we look back on those teams.

Agree completely. There are four or five players in that side, currently at their peak, who would make any ‘all time’ Barcelona XI. They’ve got the majority of the side which won the World Cup and a player whose destined to be remembered alongside Pele and Maradona. With all due respect to our lads, the current United side isn’t in the same class. They did fantastically well to get to the final and tried their best. Can’t ask for any more really.

Originally Posted by The Watcher

Agree completely. There are four or five players in that side, currently at their peak, who would make any ‘all time’ Barcelona XI. They’ve got the majority of the side which won the World Cup and a player whose destined to be remembered alongside Pele and Maradona. With all due respect to our lads, the current United side isn’t in the same class. They did fantastically well to get to the final and tried their best. Can’t ask for any more really.

Which is why...

...we should have changed our tactics


On that note, I £#%&!ing love watching Xavi play - Shame we didn't 'Fabregasteal' when he was 16

Originally Posted by The Watcher

Easy for armchair tacticians to say with the benefit of hindsight. Fergie sent out our best XI and it got battered. Deal with it.

as your friends at the game told you though, he didn't. he put out a team to play long ball, no possession and counter-attack. united have players who can pass the ball and keep possession but he chose to go with pace instead. pace and fitness used to be a tactic in itself, but barcelona keep the ball, control the tempo and are as fast as us and maybe even fitter as well, so it was suicial as s/side says. having said that it's also true that the flaw in the main focus of fergie's 4-5-1 (to maintain a sensible share of possession) is that that possession is often passive and fairly aimless. if he'd gone 4-5-1 in this particular final it would have been purely to stifle barcelona. he clearly had little or no intention of using either of his two best technicians - Scholes and Berbatov - didn't want to be seen as being negative, possibly didn't actually think our chances of winning were that great, and that's why he tried 4-4-2. that said, if we'd scored first and kicked on from it then maybe we could have exposed them in that formation?

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

but I've been making a real effort to move on from this

The Jose posts and now this. Not going well, is it

Originally Posted by The Watcher

The Jose posts and now this. Not going well, is it

It's either that or talk about MO7's renewal...

Originally Posted by The Watcher

The Jose posts and now this. Not going well, is it

Said before the game that it needed to be 3 in midfield, it was pretty obvious either way that Barca were going to control possession and a midfield of Carrick and Giggs is better going forward. Giggs has taken a lot of criticism but his strength in the middle is his creativity and how he supports the attack, some of his defensive positioning can be exploited.

Both he and Carrick like to have time on the ball and again it seemed obvious that the aggressive pressing of Barca would trouble them as a pair.

Putting workers in is all well and good but when you do get the ball you need to be able to keep it and not panic when they press.

Scholes's cameo showed that perhaps he should have played, sit him deep possibly he could have sparked the teams passing, such is the respect that he is held in by Barca they may have stood off him more than any other player. The worry is how long he would have lasted but his calming influence may have helped.

Back 5 were fine, Fabio was the main positive that came out of the final, looked very comfortable with the pressure and occasion.

Scholes
Carrick
Anderson
Valencia
Rooney
Giggs/Nani

I have said it before but i thought it was crazy to base the selection and tactics on the Chelsea games, totally different side, and it was inevitable that Utd would be out-numbered in midfield and Hernandez would be isolated and anonymous.

Barca are a great side but even at 1-1 after 50 mins it was clear they were pummeling Utd in midfield and with the options on the bench the changes needed to be made.

Danny Murphy would have made all the difference imo.

Originally Posted by borsuk

true.

the side i put up earlier was a joke but with an element of truth in it: this is almost certainly the best 11 barca have ever had, perhaps the best 11 any side has ever had, and it should be compared with our best-ever side, which is certainly not this one. our '99 side would have given them a game, or the '68 side, or the babes, had they reached maturity. that's the kind of comparisons you're looking at because in ten years barca fans will be looking back at this side in the same way we look back on those teams.

Whilst I take your general point, I think it's their front six, rather than 11, that will be talked about. I don't think Mascherano + Pique is the best centre-half pairing they've ever had, nor Valdes their best-ever keeper.

Their defence isn't as good as United's, but it generally doesn't need to be, as their amazing front six and astonishing pressing makes it virtually impossible to get through to put them under pressure. The only time United really managed to do so led to a goal. It was depressing to see that no way could be found of doing it again, and I don't think it's as insane as is being made out to suggest that more midfielders might have been able to make more headway in that respect.

Jez's team isn't bad tbf

--------------------VDS------------------

Raf----------Rio-----------Vidic--------Fab

----------------Smalling-------------------

Valencia---------Scholes------------Nani

-----------------Rooney-----------------

-----------------Berbie-------------------

Originally Posted by Zorg

Whilst I take your general point, I think it's their front six, rather than 11, that will be talked about. I don't think Mascherano + Pique is the best centre-half pairing they've ever had, nor Valdes their best-ever keeper.

Their defence isn't as good as United's, but it generally doesn't need to be, as their amazing front six and astonishing pressing makes it virtually impossible to get through to put them under pressure. The only time United really managed to do so led to a goal. It was depressing to see that no way could be found of doing it again, and I don't think it's as insane as is being made out to suggest that more midfielders might have been able to make more headway in that respect.

exactly what I was just coming on to post. I agree Barca are a great side, but to say they are the best club side in the world ever, is stretching it way too £#%&!ing far. A sublime midfield - yes. One of the world's all time great players in Messi - yes. The best defence and goalkeeper ? No £#%&!ing chance. And to say that the Utd team of 2011 was not good enough to beat them is also horseshit. Real beat them, afterall, in the copa del ray (?). Inter beat essetnially the same crop of players last year. They are a great side, no question, but not yet the best there's ever been.

Originally Posted by Albert Tatlock

--------------------VDS------------------

Raf----------Rio-----------Vidic--------Fab

----------------Smalling-------------------

Valencia---------Scholes------------Nani

-----------------Rooney-----------------

-----------------Berbie-------------------

Very good.

Originally Posted by BarryX

exactly what I was just coming on to post. I agree Barca are a great side, but to say they are the best club side in the world ever, is stretching it way too £#%&!ing far. A sublime midfield - yes. One of the world's all time great players in Messi - yes. The best defence and goalkeeper ? No £#%&!ing chance. And to say that the Utd team of 2011 was not good enough to beat them is also horseshit. Real beat them, afterall, in the copa del ray (?). Inter beat essetnially the same crop of players last year. They are a great side, no question, but not yet the best there's ever been.





Very good.

Smallenbauer in the Biscuits role ...

have no £#%&!ing idea if it would have worked though

Alternative

--------------------VDS------------------

Raf----------Rio-----------Vidic--------Giggs

----------------Smalling-------------------

Nani---------Scholes------------Fab

-----------------Rooney-----------------

-----------------Berbie-------------------

Originally Posted by Albert Tatlock

Smallenbauer in the Biscuits role ...

have no £#%&!ing idea if it would have worked though

I reckon it might have done. Maybe Scholes wouldn't be the right man for 90 minutes though, but having Smalling in that position would certainly have helped stem the constant flow of goal chances...

I too would have dropped Pea for another midfielder.

In an ideal world:

Carrick
Hargreaves
Fletcher
Tony
Giggs
Roo

Originally Posted by Albert Tatlock

--------------------VDS------------------

Raf----------Rio-----------Vidic--------Fab

----------------Smalling-------------------

Valencia---------Scholes------------Nani

-----------------Rooney-----------------

-----------------Berbie-------------------

--------------------VDS------------------

Raf----------Rio-----------Vidic--------Fab

----------------Smalling-------------------

Valencia-- Carrick--- Park-----------Giggs

-----------------Rooney-----------------


Scholes on at 65

Originally Posted by Harri Jaffa

--------------------VDS------------------

Raf----------Rio-----------Vidic--------Fab

----------------Smalling-------------------

Valencia-- Carrick--- Park-----------Giggs

-----------------Rooney-----------------


Scholes on at 65

No Berbs ?

Berbs is hard to knock off the ball once he has it. He could have acted as an outlet to relieve the pressure once smallers has swept up. Hold the ball up and let Nanners and Roo get more forward.

... oh £#%&! it, we can try to second guess fergie all summer... it gets us nowhere tbf.... except to misery city arizona... lets forget it until next season eh

This is going to be like 2009 all over again isn't it.

Fact is, as has been said, Barca played on blob, whether we ever had enough to stop them is moot. We could have stopped them, but the very nature of their game, at it's peak, is our worst nightmare.

Thus it transpired that they looked as good as they can, & we were dogshit.

Not because we are dogshit, we're clearly not - being champions of England again - but in comparison to them, we really are a poor side. A collection of individuals shoe-horned into some positions that you'd like to think would suit them. The reality is Barca play as many of their best players in their best positions as possible, & they have played together for years & years, & years....

I can't doff my cap enough to them as a footballing side - they have some indescribably @#%&!ish players, but all the best sides do.

I don't want us to copy them, I just want us to have some better players & play the United way at the top of our form again.

I fear this wont ever be the case under the Glazers. I hope Fergie has had their ear & they saw what the level is, but we got to the final, our money is made, the sponsors will happily come crawling to be a part of the United experience... & we'll have Michael @#%&!ing Owen up front for us next season.

£#%&! sake.

Berbatov, Anderson and Nani should have started or come on at half-time


hth...er, next year obviously

Smalling's quality, but shoving a young player into the European Cup Final in a brand new role against that midfield? In a year's time maybe.