This whole Value thing...

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

but he was being asked about the transfer market and about united's transfer policy/activity, just as he always is. you seem to be saying he was lying.

i'm interested to know where you envisage sneijder playing in the united team? what system? how many games would he play? how many would he settle for playing? who would he gel with best? who would you expect to be left out to make room for him? the answer to none of these questions is darren gibson btw.

I think he probably was lying.

There was no way we were going to get Villa or Sneijder, it just seemed to smell of PR at a time when our spending and finances were very much being scrutinized in the public eye.

Seemed odd that we were suddenly 'looking' at Villa as well when the club had earlier stated its policy of not buying players over the age of 25. This is all just my opinion, of course.

As for Sneijder, I think he would have been a guaranteed starter for us prior to this season. I think he would have worked perfectly operating just behind Rooney as a creative attacking midfielder in the 4-5-1 we used for much of last season.

Berbatov's form this season has been fantastic, but the problem is in Europe and against the better domestic teams we tend to switch to the 4-5-1 where Berbatov invariably gets sacrificed so Rooney can lead the line. In this system Sneijder would have fitted perfectly IMO.

Fergie tried to use the 4-5-1 against Blackpool in the first half with Rooney left and Berbatov central. It didn't work. That's where the problem is. When we play 4-4-2 its fantastic with Berbatov and Rooney as the two central strikers, but we don't always play 4-4-2 and when we play the 4-5-1/4-3-3 its usually Berbatov that gets sacrificed. In that system Sneijder would have been perfect.

not sure about your blackpool game chatter, maybe you mean spurs?

anyway, basically the point you're making seems to be that you would happily have swapped berbatov for sneijder in the summer


edit: or maybe i mean southampton? as you were

fwiw, when he used the 'value' statement (created by United's press office/comms team) I didn't think it was that true. Spurs showed there was value to be had.

I think had he used it for this window, I'd be more supportive of the idea.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

not sure about your blackpool game chatter, maybe you mean spurs?

anyway, basically the point you're making seems to be that you would happily have swapped berbatov for sneijder in the summer


edit: or maybe i mean southampton? as you were

No, it was definitely Blackpool.

Rooney started on the left with Berbatov central. Then when Blackpool scored Fergie switched it to 4-4-2 with Rooney alongside Berbatov.

I would have definitely swapped Berbatov for Sneijder in the summer, I think 99.9% of Reds would have done considering how Berbatov hadn't really been a raging success and Sneijder was pretty much the best player on the planet at the time.

Obviously Fergie has shown he was right to give Berbatov another season as he really has blossomed into a key player this season. He has always been decent, but his overall impact in games this season is far better than it was in the previous two IMO.

My problem in what will Fergie do in Europe and against Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal in the league? If he goes 4-4-2 with Berbatov and Rooney up-front then fair enough, but if he switches to 4-5-1 and drops Berbatov like he has done so many times in the past then we have to ask whether we really do have the best players for our strongest system.

If 4-5-1 is our strongest system then someone like Sneijder would have been a central part of our team, whereas Berbatov isn't.

cheech was value; bebe was not.

value would be danny murphy 5 years ago for £1.5mio or diaby for £2mio. compared to gibson for free.

there is value at the top and bottom the market, but we all know debt service is a millstone.

there is certainly no value in any of throb's comments.

Originally Posted by Neo

Obviously Fergie has shown he was right to give Berbatov another season....

so it wasn't because no one would have given us £15mio for him?

Originally Posted by jem

cheech was value; bebe was not.

value would be danny murphy 5 years ago for £1.5mio or diaby for £2mio. compared to gibson for free.

there is value at the top and bottom the market, but we all know debt service is a millstone.

there is certainly no value in any of throb's comments.

Bebe will come good. let him get used to being a footballer and having a roof first ffs.

Originally Posted by Neo

No, it was definitely Blackpool.

Rooney started on the left with Berbatov central. Then when Blackpool scored Fergie switched it to 4-4-2 with Rooney alongside Berbatov.

I would have definitely swapped Berbatov for Sneijder in the summer, I think 99.9% of Reds would have done considering how Berbatov hadn't really been a raging success and Sneijder was pretty much the best player on the planet at the time.

Obviously Fergie has shown he was right to give Berbatov another season as he really has blossomed into a key player this season. He has always been decent, but his overall impact in games this season is far better than it was in the previous two IMO.

My problem in what will Fergie do in Europe and against Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal in the league? If he goes 4-4-2 with Berbatov and Rooney up-front then fair enough, but if he switches to 4-5-1 and drops Berbatov like he has done so many times in the past then we have to ask whether we really do have the best players for our strongest system.

If 4-5-1 is our strongest system then someone like Sneijder would have been a central part of our team, whereas Berbatov isn't.

it's nowhere near 99.9% but i take your point, loads of people scapegoated berbatov and ferguson's obsession with 4-5-1, together with rooney's goalscoring form, made it easy to view berbatov as a spare part

what is interesting is that last season ferguson spoke about how he'd previously not been using rooney correctly. and this season he's said the same thing about berbatov.

4-5-1 isn't united's strongest system for me. it's a crucial string to the bow, but mainly as a reaction to the opposition. it's also a myth that it even works as ferguson says it's intended, which is to enable a greater share of possession. 4-5-1 works best for united when they soak up pressure and hit on the break, simple as that. what we need is to find a way to set up with two up front, split no doubt, and still to be able to hit on the break. the combination between rooney and berbatov this season has often been highly effective, only now it's berbatov and not rooney who gets most of the goals. this is a normal scenario for united, and doubtless as normal our second top scorer will finish with 12 to 15 goals while the top scorer has double that. ferguson £#%&!ed up last season by his obsession with 4-5-1 and by his indulgence of rooney. to cut a long story short, plan B was barely practiced in the top games and so didn't work when it was needed at the end. blaming berbatov for that was a joke, and clearly imo ferguson for one did not.

Originally Posted by jem

so it wasn't because no one would have given us £15mio for him?

Maybe. None of us mere supporters will really know.

Glad he stayed in the end though.

The funny thing is, the press and ex players moan about the amount of foreigners in this country but, after yesterday, it's no wonder managers (with any sense) go abroad.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Right. Yeah, all those transfers slipped quietly under the radar. Nobody batted an eyelid.

My point was that nobody said they were overpriced. Just as yours was nothing to do with them having a lot of publicity. So I wonder why you've bothered posting your reply at all. Perhaps you could explain?

Originally Posted by jem

there is certainly no value in any of throb's comments.

another mention eh

i'd be flattered if it wasn't you

jem, will you £#%&! off with this Danny Murphy stuff.

Originally Posted by koppas

The funny thing is, the press and ex players moan about the amount of foreigners in this country but, after yesterday, it's no wonder managers (with any sense) go abroad.

The level of English players was shown in the World Cup, one or two underperformed but in general the standard isn't really that good - not remotely as good as the press bang on.

And then less than a year later it takes 60 million queens heads to buy you the services of Bent and Carroll - crazy, more fool those who spend it.

On the up side, we have most of the better English players already, their values must have shot up in the last week or so - Rooney must be up to around Ronnie's price now ... just in case we were to sell any of them.

Originally Posted by Barracuda

The level of English players was shown in the World Cup, one or two underperformed but in general the standard isn't really that good - not remotely as good as the press bang on.

And then less than a year later it takes 60 million queens heads to buy you the services of Bent and Carroll - crazy, more fool those who spend it.

On the up side, we have most of the better English players already, their values must have shot up in the last week or so - Rooney must be up to around Ronnie's price now ... just in case we were to sell any of them.

You saying we'd get 80m for Rooneh? Bite.hands.off.

Originally Posted by FannyBanter

You saying we'd get 80m for Rooneh? Bite.hands.off.

be lucky to get 40m based on recent performances

Originally Posted by FannyBanter

You saying we'd get 80m for Rooneh? Bite.hands.off.

Originally Posted by Ginners

be lucky to get 40m based on recent performances

On second thoughts, whatever it was it wouldn't be worth it. Would just go the same route as Ronnies fee.

Originally Posted by FannyBanter

On second thoughts, whatever it was it wouldn't be worth it. Would just go the same route as Ronnies fee.

Agreed. I'd even take £50m for him.

Originally Posted by FannyBanter

You saying we'd get 80m for Rooneh? Bite.hands.off.

I'm saying he should be valued at that in relation to what the likes of Bent, Carroll, Milner, Barry, Lescott and co were bought for.

No doubt he's playing like a @#%&! at present, but the bar has been raised and his price should go up accordingly.

That's a good point tbh. Because the 'market value' () of Carroll is £35million - what's Ronnie worth to a prem club? 100million imo,