Do you think that selling Rooney at the end of the season will cover the interest payments

Originally Posted by Harri Jaffa

I was just being Tounge and Cheek about interested payments really

We are well in the shit and the selling of Rooney and Ronaldo was inevitable as soon as they took over

Ok.

Unfortunately we all know how this is going to end.

The Glazers/United (it's the same thing now) are going to get deeper and deeper into financial trouble. They can raise cash in the short term by selling Carrington, Rooney or even Old Trafford, but in the end the debts will drag United down because every bit of selling off devalues the club further.

The Glazers will have to sell the club, but any buyer with any sense will wait until things are desperate and the price has dropped as low as it is likely to go.

Once the Glazers have to sell because the club isn't generating any money any more, a new buyer will buy a cheaper United with fewer star players, maybe a rented ground and training facilities. Only then will it be worth their while to buy the club for a song and invest in new players to rebuild the club and restore it's value.

It's going to hurt, but we're going to have to fall a lot further before it's worth someone's while to rescue us.

Originally Posted by Surfers do Charlie

Unfortunately we all know how this is going to end.

The Glazers/United (it's the same thing now) are going to get deeper and deeper into financial trouble. They can raise cash in the short term by selling Carrington, Rooney or even Old Trafford, but in the end the debts will drag United down because every bit of selling off devalues the club further.

The Glazers will have to sell the club, but any buyer with any sense will wait until things are desperate and the price has dropped as low as it is likely to go.

Once the Glazers have to sell because the club isn't generating any money any more, a new buyer will buy a cheaper United with fewer star players, maybe a rented ground and training facilities. Only then will it be worth their while to buy the club for a song and invest in new players to rebuild the club and restore it's value.

It's going to hurt, but we're going to have to fall a lot further before it's worth someone's while to rescue us.

Jesus christ we are absolutely £#%&!ed.

Originally Posted by Surfers do Charlie

Unfortunately we all know how this is going to end.

The Glazers/United (it's the same thing now) are going to get deeper and deeper into financial trouble. They can raise cash in the short term by selling Carrington, Rooney or even Old Trafford, but in the end the debts will drag United down because every bit of selling off devalues the club further.

The Glazers will have to sell the club, but any buyer with any sense will wait until things are desperate and the price has dropped as low as it is likely to go.

Once the Glazers have to sell because the club isn't generating any money any more, a new buyer will buy a cheaper United with fewer star players, maybe a rented ground and training facilities. Only then will it be worth their while to buy the club for a song and invest in new players to rebuild the club and restore it's value.

It's going to hurt, but we're going to have to fall a lot further before it's worth someone's while to rescue us.

That is exactly correct

Made more irritating because everyone knew this is what would happen

Originally Posted by caliban

the way to apporach this is for all IMUSA/MIB/Red Army activists to change their surnames to GLAZER.

this will result in each activist being able to draw down £1mm as a loan from the holding company. Via an Asset Swap package linked to the Credit Default Swap levels on JP Morgan, the combined group should be able to buy Rooney outright.

they subsequently sell him to FC United for £480 plus a pair of rabbits.

then they simply write down the tax loss against the UK deficit, securitise all future gate receipts and sell the remaining deep-out-of-the-money call option to a consortium of Icelandic seal farmers.

Job done.

what type of rabbits?

Originally Posted by Child of Darkness

what type of rabbits?

rampant

Originally Posted by El Chalten

if anyone offered £70m for Rooney, i'd bite their hands off.

nft.

You're a massive @#%&!

Originally Posted by believe

rampant

if i asked little miss caliban (aka The Slightly-Ginger Whinger), she'd probably say 'bunny'.

HTH

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm £#%&!ing sick of only hearing bad news about us

Its funny but I expect that Leeds fans were saying similar in 2002.

Signing a faded Liverpool striker and selling a star performer for a record transfer fee were some of the first outward signs that something was wrong.

We are all still thinking that something will turn up to balance the books and sort itself out despite United various companies failing to make an overall profit in the last few years. Fingers crossed our optimism and boredom is more justified than Leeds fans' optimism and boredom with the subject.

Fingers crossed that the surprise move in January 2010 to attempt to attract bond traders around the world to stump up cash does not become a bulletpoint on a wikipedia page about the signposts to our own demise.

Originally Posted by zzalsar3

Signing a faded Liverpool striker and selling a star performer for a record transfer fee were some of the first outward signs that something was wrong.

I disagree. Ronaldo wanted to leave, we could get a huge price for him, so he was sold. That could've/would've likely happened regardless of the club's financial situation.

Signing Owen essentially for free wasn't a sign of anything other than a good financial deal in my opinion.

It's who we haven't signed that is the indicator of any trouble.

am i the only one who's not arsed if Rooney is sold?

couldn't give a £#%&!, tbh.

nft.

Originally Posted by El Chalten

am i the only one who's not arsed if Rooney is sold?

couldn't give a £#%&!, tbh.

nft.

No. I'm certain there's half a dozen or so people on here who share your bizarre point of view.

Originally Posted by zzalsar3

Its funny but I expect that Leeds fans were saying similar in 2002.

Signing a faded Liverpool striker and selling a star performer for a record transfer fee were some of the first outward signs that something was wrong.

We are all still thinking that something will turn up to balance the books and sort itself out despite United various companies failing to make an overall profit in the last few years. Fingers crossed our optimism and boredom is more justified than Leeds fans' optimism and boredom with the subject.

Fingers crossed that the surprise move in January 2010 to attempt to attract bond traders around the world to stump up cash does not become a bulletpoint on a wikipedia page about the signposts to our own demise.

Yeah.Tried to convince myself about the 'bargain - he's costing us nowt' being the real reason we'd signed him but it's %@#$&!s.Said when Ronaldo was sold (and was told this by someone who was inside the stadium the day we 'agreed' to sell) - bottom line was we had to sell, no question about it or we were in real shit.

Since then, we've been fobbed off about us 'bidding' for players and about the whole financial situation by our manager (who I have the upmost respect for) and I honestly believe we're in a Leeds type situation.

Bottom line - if there was no financial 'crisis' as Ferguson keeps saying, the Carrington sale/lease back issue would have never been raised.We're right in the shit.

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

Yeah.Tried to convince myself about the 'bargain - he's costing us nowt' being the real reason we'd signed him but it's %@#$&!s.Said when Ronaldo was sold (and was told this by someone who was inside the stadium the day we 'agreed' to sell) - bottom line was we had to sell, no question about it or we were in real shit.

Since then, we've been fobbed off about us 'bidding' for players and about the whole financial situation by our manager (who I have the upmost respect for) and I honestly believe we're in a Leeds type situation.

Bottom line - if there was no financial 'crisis' as Ferguson keeps saying, the Carrington sale/lease back issue would have never been raised.We're right in the shit.

Welcome to 2005

Originally Posted by Harri Jaffa

Welcome to 2005

We weren't a selling club in 2005.

We weren't on the verge of selling our training ground etc.We were able to pay top fees in 2005.

Alright, the Glazers came in and saddled us with the debt but it's now that it's obviously uncontrollable/unsustainable.

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

We weren't a selling club in 2005.

We weren't on the verge of selling our training ground etc.We were able to pay top fees in 2005.

Alright, the Glazers came in and saddled us with the debt but it's now that it's obviously uncontrollable or sustainable.

I just meant we've been in the shit since they took over imo

Didn't mean it to sound quite so upity

Originally Posted by boreez

I disagree. Ronaldo wanted to leave, we could get a huge price for him, so he was sold. That could've/would've likely happened regardless of the club's financial situation.

Signing Owen essentially for free wasn't a sign of anything other than a good financial deal in my opinion.

It's who we haven't signed that is the indicator of any trouble.

When I said that signing a faded Liverpool striker and selling a star performer for a record transfer fee were some of the first outward signs of trouble I was referring to Leeds, their signing of Robbie Fowler and their sale of Rio Ferdinand.

Any resemblance to the current Manchester United situation was merely coincidental.

Though while we are talking, signing Owen may indeed be a good financial deal for a club that knows it cannot spend significant money on either transfer fees or salaries.

Of all the players who would accept whatever kind of pay-as-you-play deal he is on, would cost nothing in transfer fees and would be willing to come to Old Trafford on a short term contract, Owen may well represent a very good value financial deal. I'm not sure who else was on that shortlist though. I'm not sure if Henrik Laarson was available this time around.

Originally Posted by zzalsar3

When I said that signing a faded Liverpool striker and selling a star performer for a record transfer fee were some of the first outward signs of trouble I was referring to Leeds, their signing of Robbie Fowler and their sale of Rio Ferdinand.

Any resemblance to the current Manchester United situation was merely coincidental.

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

Alright, the Glazers came in and saddled us with the debt but it's now that it's obviously uncontrollable/unsustainable.

If it wasn't for the sale of Ronaldo we'd be looking at 2 years of losses, so a situation that is clearly getting progressively worse.

You wonder how they plan to continue - we can't get a great deal better than the past two seasons from a playing point, and they must be maximizing every available avenue possible income wise - and yet still it's nowhere near enough to break even?

Weakening the team to the point where it fails to qualify for the CL would be suicidal, so hopefully that will rule out the sale of Rooney - although I'm not entirely confident about that.

Saying that, I think other players are almost certain to go - selling Rooney may get the most money but it's still only one wage - I'd imagine they'd rather raise the same money by shifting 6 or 7 others (e.g. Foster, Vidic, Gibson, Nani, Tosic, Berbatov, Owen etc) whilst at the same time getting all their wages of the payroll. As we have a huge squad we could probably cope with that, and they wouldn't cause anything like the controversy of selling Rooney - he's probably a last resort.

What a £#%&!ing mess, it's a total disgrace that this has been allowed to happen. It's hard to believe anyone can borrow a ridiculous amount of money to buy a perfectly well run and profitable club, then legally transfer that debt to the club and get that club to pay the money back ... we're literally buying ourselves!

As for the main debt, £#%&! me we can't even cope with the interest payments never mind that ...

Originally Posted by Barracuda

If it wasn't for the sale of Ronaldo we'd be looking at 2 years of losses, so a situation that is clearly getting progressively worse.

You wonder how they plan to continue - we can't get a great deal better than the past two seasons from a playing point, and they must be maximizing every available avenue possible income wise - and yet still it's nowhere near enough to break even?

Weakening the team to the point where it fails to qualify for the CL would be suicidal, so hopefully that will rule out the sale of Rooney - although I'm not entirely confident about that.

Saying that, I think other players are almost certain to go - selling Rooney may get the most money but it's still only one wage - I'd imagine they'd rather raise the same money by shifting 6 or 7 others (e.g. Foster, Vidic, Gibson, Nani, Tosic, Berbatov, Owen etc) whilst at the same time getting all their wages of the payroll. As we have a huge squad we could probably cope with that, and they wouldn't cause anything like the controversy of selling Rooney - he's probably a last resort.

What a £#%&!ing mess, it's a total disgrace that this has been allowed to happen. It's hard to believe anyone can borrow a ridiculous amount of money to buy a perfectly well run and profitable club, then legally transfer that debt to the club and get that club to pay the money back ... we're literally buying ourselves!

As for the main debt, £#%&! me we can't even cope with the interest payments never mind that ...

That, my friend, is why i'm angry. All the time.