United Director Of Football...Edwin Van Der Sar ?

Originally Posted by dunk

Badly, possibly.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

didn't we already restructure this about 3 years ago?

Not in the sense they suggest.

Because

building a new philosophy at the club, where players aren't bought at the top of their value.

Wouldn't lead them to Mourinho.

Anyway we spoke about this on here 5-6 years ago, that they didn't have a vision that influenced the managerial choices. Giggs went from being our Guardiola, next in line to the throne, to being cast aside without even getting near the job all in the space of 18 months

I don't agree with this idea at all.

Ordinarily, I think it's better if the manager decides what players come and go, and maybe what kind of players we want and what kind of football we want to play. Then it's simply a matter of having the right manager in charge to ensure those decisions are mostly good ones. This is the best case scenario, IMO. We've seen that ourselves with Fergie.

In theory, taking this responsibility away from the manager would ensure we have a kind of continuity of philosophy and signings regardless of which manager is in charge and regardless of how many managers are in charge over time. A more long-term approach to signings would also be more likely, since there would be less pressure on the DOF to get it right first time - the manager is usually the first one blamed.

However, we still have the same need for good judgement about who are the right players to sign. We're just moving that responsibility from one person to another [perhaps less qualified].

Personally, I don't trust the club to pick the right person for this role, nor even to stand by their decision to have a DOF. I don't think anyone behind the scenes knows what they are doing from a football point of view. They're just trying shit out and hoping for the best.

There is one problem. The solution is to get the right manager. I've no idea who that is.

Originally Posted by goldfinger II

I don't agree with this idea at all.

Ordinarily, I think it's better if the manager decides what players come and go, and maybe what kind of players we want and what kind of football we want to play. Then it's simply a matter of having the right manager in charge to ensure those decisions are mostly good ones. This is the best case scenario, IMO. We've seen that ourselves with Fergie.

In theory, taking this responsibility away from the manager would ensure we have a kind of continuity of philosophy and signings regardless of which manager is in charge and regardless of how many managers are in charge over time. A more long-term approach to signings would also be more likely, since there would be less pressure on the DOF to get it right first time - the manager is usually the first one blamed.

However, we still have the same need for good judgement about who are the right players to sign. We're just moving that responsibility from one person to another [perhaps less qualified].

Personally, I don't trust the club to pick the right person for this role, nor even to stand by their decision to have a DOF. I don't think anyone behind the scenes knows what they are doing from a football point of view. They're just trying shit out and hoping for the best.

There is one problem. The solution is to get the right manager. I've no idea who that is.

Well, several people perhaps. And the difference is those people offer continuity and sustainability, not least in idea but because they will make the type of long-term decisions that manager may not. With the way the game is going, managers almost accept they won't be at the club long term. With some, especially such as Mourinho, there will be an interest in taking short-term decisions for their own gain.

A man hired to look after the long-term interests of the club with far greater job security will inevitably direct things in a different way. It feels we have a good example at the moment with Martial, whom Mourinho hasn't liked from the start but the club take a wider view. Let Mourinho sell him, them Mou is gone in a year or two, Martial may be firing somewhere else and it looks a short-term decision.

i used to laugh at other clubs doing this when we were winning everything. we're one of those clubs now...desperately clutching at straws while undermining the current manager.

Originally Posted by armchair

i used to laugh at other clubs doing this when we were winning everything. we're one of those clubs now...desperately clutching at straws while undermining the current manager.

I do have to agree that the best time to do restructuring like this is from a position of strength.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

I do have to agree that the best time to do restructuring like this is from a position of strength.

You also have to figure out where you're going wrong. I do get the sense that somehow, someway, the people at the club have been made aware that they're been working with no real strategy over the last five years. To continue to do so will only do more damage imo.

Originally Posted by goldfinger II

I don't agree with this idea at all.

Ordinarily, I think it's better if the manager decides what players come and go, and maybe what kind of players we want and what kind of football we want to play. Then it's simply a matter of having the right manager in charge to ensure those decisions are mostly good ones. This is the best case scenario, IMO. We've seen that ourselves with Fergie.

In theory, taking this responsibility away from the manager would ensure we have a kind of continuity of philosophy and signings regardless of which manager is in charge and regardless of how many managers are in charge over time. A more long-term approach to signings would also be more likely, since there would be less pressure on the DOF to get it right first time - the manager is usually the first one blamed.

However, we still have the same need for good judgement about who are the right players to sign. We're just moving that responsibility from one person to another [perhaps less qualified].

Personally, I don't trust the club to pick the right person for this role, nor even to stand by their decision to have a DOF. I don't think anyone behind the scenes knows what they are doing from a football point of view. They're just trying shit out and hoping for the best.

There is one problem. The solution is to get the right manager. I've no idea who that is.

The right man is the man in the job at the time. He’s the guy who will be judged by the players he has & what he does with them so he should have a substantial role in choosing them . It’s the clubs scattergun approach to appointing managers that is the problem here.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

You also have to figure out where you're going wrong. I do get the sense that somehow, someway, the people at the club have been made aware that they're been working with no real strategy over the last five years. To continue to do so will only do more damage imo.

It's sort of shutting the stable gate after the horse has bolted though, doing it now.

Finding out the manager and the club hierarchy aren't singing from the same hymn sheet so to speak, a director of football isn't going to make Mourinho bend to his will or anything. It won't make him break the habit of a lifetime and play better football, or make him accept the club's signings rather than picking his own. It might've stopped us appointing someone so diametrically opposed to what we're about as a club in the first place, but it's a bit £#%&!ing late for that now.

Originally Posted by andyroo

It's sort of shutting the stable gate after the horse has bolted though, doing it now.

Finding out the manager and the club hierarchy aren't singing from the same hymn sheet so to speak, a director of football isn't going to make Mourinho bend to his will or anything. It won't make him break the habit of a lifetime and play better football, or make him accept the club's signings rather than picking his own. It might've stopped us appointing someone so diametrically opposed to what we're about as a club in the first place, but it's a bit £#%&!ing late for that now.

What exactly are we about or do we at least want to be about in terms of style of play? We are not going back to 442 with wingers so no matter what we have to develop a new style for the modern game, tikki takka? high press? What are our academy teams playing?

Originally Posted by andyroo

It's sort of shutting the stable gate after the horse has bolted though, doing it now.

Finding out the manager and the club hierarchy aren't singing from the same hymn sheet so to speak, a director of football isn't going to make Mourinho bend to his will or anything. It won't make him break the habit of a lifetime and play better football, or make him accept the club's signings rather than picking his own. It might've stopped us appointing someone so diametrically opposed to what we're about as a club in the first place, but it's a bit £#%&!ing late for that now.

This move won't have anything to do with Mourinho. He will be gone when this is implemented.

This structure will work with someone like Pochettino or Zidane...

Originally Posted by windy waffles

This move won't have anything to do with Mourinho. He will be gone when this is implemented.

This structure will work with someone like Pochettino or Zidane...

Are they much alike?

Originally Posted by andyroo

Are they much alike?

He was Real's director of football so he is used to the idea...

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

A man hired to look after the long-term interests of the club with far greater job security will inevitably direct things in a different way. It feels we have a good example at the moment with Martial, whom Mourinho hasn't liked from the start but the club take a wider view. Let Mourinho sell him, them Mou is gone in a year or two, Martial may be firing somewhere else and it looks a short-term decision.

So the manager is forced to keep players he thinks it’s best to sell for footballing reasons? How does that help build a successful club? Sack a manager whenever they don’t get on with commercially valuable assets? Fergie being forced to keep beckham rather than sell him?

Originally Posted by andyroo

It's sort of shutting the stable gate after the horse has bolted though, doing it now.

Finding out the manager and the club hierarchy aren't singing from the same hymn sheet so to speak, a director of football isn't going to make Mourinho bend to his will or anything. It won't make him break the habit of a lifetime and play better football, or make him accept the club's signings rather than picking his own. It might've stopped us appointing someone so diametrically opposed to what we're about as a club in the first place, but it's a bit £#%&!ing late for that now.

It's about post-Mou I think. They clearly don't like his approach; I don't think he'll be around very much longer.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

So the manager is forced to keep players he thinks it’s best to sell for footballing reasons? How does that help build a successful club? Sack a manager whenever they don’t get on with commercially valuable assets? Fergie being forced to keep beckham rather than sell him?

Because you might not see De Bruyne, Salah and Lukaku at your rivals within two years?

Originally Posted by Tiberian

It should have been in place or at least in the short terms plans when Fergie was retiring. It does feel as if almost everyone connected to the club was in some level of denial over the difficulty of the transition from Fergie.

Actually feel sorry for Moyes now, he should never have been seriously considered but he had no chance with reality rushing towards the club.

First order of business for a new DOF is to work out what type of club Utd want to be, the shit version of Madrid throwing money and names at the problem they have been during these 5 years or one with an identity that can survive management and player changes.

That would have required Fergie himself to understand what was needed after him. I really don’t think he did.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Because you might not see De Bruyne, Salah and Lukaku at your rivals within two years?

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Because you might not see De Bruyne, Salah and Lukaku at your rivals within two years?

nft.

Originally Posted by utd99

That would have required Fergie himself to understand what was needed after him. I really don’t think he did.

SAF, to a degree underestimated the job he did, no doubt about it.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Because you might not see De Bruyne, Salah and Lukaku at your rivals within two years?

Hindsight claptrap to score cheap points.

I don't even like Mourinho, but your one eyed vendetta forces a person to keep defending the @#%&!.