Another lvg thread

Originally Posted by no fun

Football wise I come to bury LVG, not praise him, however there is one thing he does far better than Frogson..

The walk along the edge of the pitch, or, to be more specific, the walk down that slope from the touchline to the bench

Frogson used to take little short steps, almost running, and I always used to think he was going to fall over, but LVG is like a mountain goat, sure footed, no hesitation, never looks like he is going to stumble

And that's about it

LVG also doesn't throw chewing gum onto the pitch ahead of shaking hands with the opposition manager. I always found this a little common.

Originally Posted by bobbledinho

Everyone has different expectations. The idea that this team of players, most of whom arrived in the last two years are going to be playing barnstorming football and winning matches at a canter is fantasy.

It's excruciating to watch. But i can see why LVG is sticking to his system to try and breed some sort of consistency, even if that is consistently boring. Injuries were a big problem pre-xmas and upset that consistency. I doubt he wanted to play the u21s against Wolfsburg.

I'm not even a diehard cardie, i have doubts about LVG. Just seems expectations of a lot of people are unrealistic. Not like we've done a Chelsea ffs

Not a bad post. You're more patient than me.

We're walking a very fine line though. A couple of injuries and the demoralising European exit and the wheels did fall off big time. Dug a couple of results out now but the big problem, the lack of cutting edge, isn't going away.

If we're TRYING to be positive.

-he's reduced an over-inflated squad of shit players.

- he's implemented a pressing game that is effective when everyone is fit and on it.

- Chris Smalling

- the passing has improved quite dramatically. We're just sick of seeing it.


That's about it though. And there are valid counter arguments and downsides to these positives aswell.

I've been pro lvg for a long while and I do like the guy. By the time Moyes left I hated him and just wanted him gone. I never thought he had any plan or knew what he wanted to do. I don't think or feel that way about lvg, but whatever plan he has just isn't working and I'm not sure he knows how to turn it around from here. The spineless, pathetic losses to Liverpool, city and Liverpool under Moyes should serve as a reminder of just how bad it got under him at the very end......but the atmosphere around the club and sense of optimism atm is more or less the same.

I think most fans can take a rebuild and all that goes with it if there's the occasional flicker of entertainment along the way. Right now, it's pretty much guaranteed it will be utterly tedious from start to finish.

I think its better for everyone that he goes now.

Originally Posted by NegativeNorris

OK, an exaggeration. But, we've been knocked out of cups by McDons and Middlesbrough, as well as being taken to replays by Yeovil and Cambridge.

Have they sold out again.?

Have I told you about the modernisation of the training infrastructure?........

Originally Posted by andyroo

Not a bad post. You're more patient than me.

We're walking a very fine line though. A couple of injuries and the demoralising European exit and the wheels did fall off big time. Dug a couple of results out but the big problem, the lack of cutting edge, isn't going away.

Completely agree. We're very fragile. I think that plays into LVG's tactics. Boring and consistent is better than going gung-ho and getting tanked like Leicester last year. That sort of result can set things back a bit. Wolfsburg as well. Not good for the kids playing and not good for bedding new players in.

We could certainly do with another Martial or a creative midfielder. I like Pereira but not sure it's worth putting him in if he's going to get dogs abuse for not setting the place alight.

If we can get a run together and build some confidence I think we'd see an exponential improvement in individuals as well as the team as a whole. Big 'IF' of course. Much more a case of keeping things together and avoiding disaster.

Fact is things could be a lot worse.

Originally Posted by glassy

Moyes' major signings

Marouane Fellaini (£27.5m)

Juan Mata (£37.1m)

Total spend: £64.6m

Premier League points: 57

£1.1m per point in Premier League


Van Gaal's major signings

Angel di Maria (£60m)

Luke Shaw (£30m)

Ander Herrera (£29m)

Marcos Rojo (£16m)

Daley Blind (£14m)

Radamel Falcao (£6m loan fee)

Victor Valdes (Free)

Anthony Martial (£36m)

Morgan Schneiderlin (£25m)

Memphis Depay (£25m)

Matteo Darmian (£14.4m)

Bastian Schweinsteiger (£6.3m)

Sergio Romero (Free)

Total spend: £261.7m

Premier League points: 99

£2.6m per point in Premier League

Shut up

he was mildly amusing when he got pissed at the awards do last year
A few good games last season when it briefly looked like he might have a coherent "philosophy" that would work on the pitch
Got rid of some of the worst shit@#%&!s
Bought Martial

Originally Posted by signed dc

he was mildly amusing when he got pissed at the awards do last year
A few good games last season when it briefly looked like he might have a coherent "philosophy" that would work on the pitch
Got rid of some of the worst shit@#%&!s
Bought Martial

Martial .... Is he going to ruin him by playing him out of position ?

Memphis could yet come good . Has all the qualities to make it IMO .

Originally Posted by bobbledinho

Everyone has different expectations. The idea that this team of players, most of whom arrived in the last two years are going to be playing barnstorming football and winning matches at a canter is fantasy

That's the cardie strawman. Anybody I know or have read online that is unhappy with LVG doesn't have that expectation at all, not even close as its that unrealistic, they (and I) just want to see something resembling a plan we can buy into. our goals return is beyond pitiful, you can't actually believe it when you read it in black and white. We've arguably been the most dull side in the league the last 12 months.

Originally Posted by Child of Darkness

Martial .... Is he going to ruin him by playing him out of position ?

Memphis could yet come good . Has all the qualities to make it IMO .

Frustrating indeed. Would mind seeing Rooney on the right, Memphis on the left and Martial in the striker role.

While it is more than uncomfortable, surely we wait till the end of the season and if we don't finish better than fourth, there has been no improvement and he'll go.

Changing mid-season is rarely a great strategic move at coaching level. Gritted teeth and let's get through to May. Of more concern is Keith starting a new LVG thread which is rapidly morphing into all the others. I am on the edge here son.

Originally Posted by 92ToBury

Frustrating indeed. Would mind seeing Rooney on the bench , Memphis on the left and Martial in the striker role.

I agree

Football is a disappointment, although I don't think the general quality in this country is much good anyway. But he's still very much in the midst of the rebuild. Still playing catch-up in the market, which is partly his own doing but he inherited some difficult squad issues.

Weird vibe around the club which isn't helping at all. Still surprises me that he's not had vocal support from certain people.

Originally Posted by Stickman

That's the cardie strawman. Anybody I know or have read online that is unhappy with LVG doesn't have that expectation at all, not even close as its that unrealistic, they (and I) just want to see something resembling a plan we can buy into. our goals return is beyond pitiful, you can't actually believe it when you read it in black and white. We've arguably been the most dull side in the league the last 12 months.

That's fair enough but what is the plan you want to buy into? Something more attacking? Less obsessed with possession? I think the problem is anything less defensive than what we have now opens us up to a Chelsea style collapse. I think that's how fragile a state we are in. And i don't think it's a case of being completely broken allows us to rebuild.

Originally Posted by 92ToBury

Frustrating indeed. Would mind seeing Rooney on the right, Memphis on the left and Martial in the striker role.

Wouldn't that just be moving Rooney out of position? I'm not against that side, but it says a lot about Mata and Rooney.

LvG and his supposed crippling effect on United's ability to string together an attacking passage of play against Sheffield United is a godsend for certain players. A few getting away with absolute murder while he takes all the heat. Lack of genuine competition for places in attack, knowledge that the manager takes the blame for under-performance. Recipe for complacency.

Don't think LvG is dealing with the media well atm. He said he wasn't happy with the performance but I reckon he could show a bit more of a nose for relating to the fans. The media twist his words weekly, but a clear expression that he understand/shares the frustration could help.

De Gea

Darmian Smalling Rojo Shaw

Schweinsteiger Schneiderlen

Rooney Herrera Memphis

Martial

Apart from 3 players that is a team that Van Gaal built.

De Gea world class keeper
Smalling maybe the best defender in the league
Rooney over the hill striker

So unless all of this can be blamed on Rooney and his loss of form together with Shaw's injury then the buck stops with Van Gaal.

Van Gaal bought the team

Van Gaal choses the system

Van Gaal coaches the style

If players are under achieving/out of form/lost confidence then that is part of the manages job to bring them out of the slump.

Van Gaal successes so far

Kept De Gea
Turned Smalling into a beast

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Lack of genuine competition for places in attack, knowledge that the manager takes the blame for under-performance. Recipe for complacency.

.

and who created that situation?

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Don't think LvG is dealing with the media well atm. He said he wasn't happy with the performance but I reckon he could show a bit more of a nose for relating to the fans. The media twist his words weekly, but a clear expression that he understand/shares the frustration could help.

Rock and a hard place. Admit it and the media hysteria is vindicated. Try and place the onus more on individual players and risk a negative reaction or collapse in confidence.

He wants to keep things behind closed doors but that allows a vacuum to be filled by Scholes, Savage et al. That's a conscience decision he seems to have made. Difficult call but I respect him for not bending to their whim. Moyes let too many outside influences into his decision making and it only did him harm.

Originally Posted by Stickman

and who created that situation?

Combination of things. When he arrived Rooney and Mata had both just signed long-term contracts, so he was obliged to build around both of them, which I think was a £#%&!ing disaster tbh. The failure of Di Maria and Falcao also set him back. Van Persie's time came and the likes of Wilson, Adnan, Memphis and Martial are on long-term contracts but need time to develop.

We can complain (and I did about Welbeck) that he let too many strikers leave, but they all wanted to go. Overall he left himself way too dependent on Rooney re-finding not just form but top form. Was a massive gamble. If he ends up leaving this year, he'll surely look back and wish he'd done a Fergie and stockpilled goalscorers.

Originally Posted by bobbledinho

Rock and a hard place. Admit it and the media hysteria is vindicated. Try and place the onus more on individual players and risk a negative reaction or collapse in confidence.

He wants to keep things behind closed doors but that allows a vacuum to be filled by Scholes, Savage et al. That's a conscience decision he seems to have made. Difficult call but I respect him for not bending to their whim. Moyes let too many outside influences into his decision making and it only did him harm.

He doesn't have to be critical. He'd be well within his rights to say that he's got a long track record of great football and seeing us struggle so much hurts him, but he's determined to put it right. He's being hung out to dry a little, but something like that could help get fans onside for a bit. I think he;s gutted about what's happening, but thinks he needs to play it cool. Just such a weird vibe at the club atm.

I'll be honest, I'm starting to think the Double might be out of reach this year.