Sir Chip in New York today chirpsing Guardiola?

Originally Posted by Argentina

I don't think it's much to do with margin for error in terms of the debt as Ferguson's thirst for breaking records. This is a man who switched from 4-4-2 to a 4-5-1 in a evolution to help us win the European Cup (even though the difference from one year to the next was the fact we had a striker in RVN that could put the ball away more often than not), yet now 4-4-2 is the future

not sure that's true. he's moving away from traditional wingers atm - welbeck wide, the diamond - and rooney is playing much deeper this season than before, hence the lack of goals from him. kagawa was clearly bought with something other than 4-4-2 in mind.

fergie not one for revolution but the style of the team is slowly evolving imo.

i agree about the back 5 and strikers being the best in the country

but look at the midfield at the end of the season imo giggs, scholes, fletcher and young have to go, anderson and nani seem to be in last chance saloon (both imo are good enough to stay) and cleverly and carrick should start every game but don't
powell could be a good player too

point is if we don't rebuild in both january and the summer we'll be carrying on the usual shit@#%&!ery

Originally Posted by thenorthwillriseagain

i agree about the back 5 and strikers being the best in the country

but look at the midfield at the end of the season imo giggs, scholes, fletcher and young have to go, anderson and nani seem to be in last chance saloon (both imo are good enough to stay) and cleverly and carrick should start every game but don't
powell could be a good player too

point is if we don't rebuild in both january and the summer we'll be carrying on the usual shit@#%&!ery

chicharito and van persie have been brilliant. welbeck and rooney have been shite.

our wingers have been awful this season, the worst i've seen in many a year. centre midfield is the same as last season.

defence, again, same as last season. everyone constantly injured no continuity and pissing around with goalkeepers.

recipe for disaster.

Originally Posted by borsuk

not sure that's true. he's moving away from traditional wingers atm - welbeck wide, the diamond - and rooney is playing much deeper this season than before, hence the lack of goals from him. kagawa was clearly bought with something other than 4-4-2 in mind.

fergie not one for revolution but the style of the team is slowly evolving imo.

Not exactly true. For years we've had a traditional right winger and an alternative style left midfielder. Roney played wide for years when he first came here. Even Solskjaer, Veron, Scholes have been shunted to the left to compliment a 'traditional winger' on the opposite side. Only when Ronaldo was at his peak did we play with a roaming front three (occasional front four if we were chasing a game like Spurs at home in 09).

We went to move back to that at the start of last season but with a marauding front 5. Young and Valencia are steps away from that, and so too is ostracizing Nani who was integral to that system. It also got the best out of Nani - and Rooney. That roaming front line was in evidence against Spurs in the second half (arguably our most impressive 45 minutes of the season) but with the players rotating around a fixed Hernandez. Yet we go back to 4-4-2 and predictable football all the time. Yes, that second half was risk football but it needed to happen at 2-0 down.

Fergie sends his teams out full of fear of defeat so we have lazy, derivative football. The occasions when he has sent us out to smash a team we have done so. Pep would be great because I think he would hold true to his principles of how the game should be played.

The 'diamond' which Ferguson laughably described as 'revolutionary' has gone since Newcastle which was our last clean sheet, and it was also nullified after the 20 minutes in which it worked. Pep is very reactionary in those circumstances, and also astute. We have the players, we just need a change of impetus, which I believe Ferguson can provide if he is pushed by people around him. However, they are all too happy to see us do things labour against QP-£#%&!ing-R for 60 minutes before slightly fortunately going 2-1 up and then putting in an increased performance and then coming out and saying 'the 3 points is what matters'. It's not. We're Manchester United. Glory isn't to be had in just 3 points. It's how we get them that matters. That's why people hate us, because we've always done what they couldn't, success in style.

fergie doesn't send the team out to play with a slow tempo and predictable style, he said after the game yesterday that we only played for 10 minutes.

what fergie said was that the diamond was revolutionary for united because of the tradition of two wingers that we have, not that is was revolutionary in general. nothing laughable about that, in fact it's pretty banal tbh.

the problem is a low energy level in the side, reminds me of the geriatric ac milan side we played a couple of years ago with the likes of seedorf in it. incidentally, rio was as bad as anybody at slowing the tempo down on saturday, he was at walking pace or even stopping with the ball every time he brought it out.

i haven't heard anybody say it's the 3 points that matters

Originally Posted by borsuk

fergie doesn't send the team out to play with a slow tempo and predictable style

You miss our last trip to the council house?

Originally Posted by The Watcher

You miss our last trip to the council house?

i wish

Originally Posted by borsuk

fergie doesn't send the team out to play with a slow tempo and predictable style, he said after the game yesterday that we only played for 10 minutes.

what fergie said was that the diamond was revolutionary for united because of the tradition of two wingers that we have, not that is was revolutionary in general. nothing laughable about that, in fact it's pretty banal tbh.

the problem is a low energy level in the side, reminds me of the geriatric ac milan side we played a couple of years ago with the likes of seedorf in it. incidentally, rio was as bad as anybody at slowing the tempo down on saturday, he was at walking pace or even stopping with the ball every time he brought it out.

i haven't heard anybody say it's the 3 points that matters

Rooney constantly says it. If Ferguson takes the credit for constructing a side to win championship and for creating such a great team in the 90s etc, he should take the rap for Ferdinand slowing the tempo and lumping shit straight long balls aimlessly forward.

If he goes in and rages at half time, and we come out and put in a performance like we do in the second half at Spurs, why can he not make it painfully clear to them that anything less than that 100% of the time (aside from the OCASSIONAL dip) is not acceptable. Unless of course he accepts those shit performances as we get 3 points more often than not.

Originally Posted by dunk

Wherever he ends up next he isn't going to have the ridiculous good fortune to have 4 or 5 of the best players in the World and every other major club in transition or decline. He should have had 3 or 4 CL's given the players he had and the competition, really.

Dunk is spot on, why did Barca not win the european cup last season? They were beaten by the worst chelsea side since 2002 and one which finished 6th in the mediocre PL, 25(twentyfive) pts behind fergies shit@#%&!s who had no vidic.

2010 they crash out to an Inter side which did nothing but defend in the 2nd leg and were down to 10 men early in the 1st half in that game.

Their 2 victories came against Fergies shit@#%&!s who everyone has hated on here. So how great are Barca really, how great is Pep? All ill say is their 2005 team with etoo and ronaldinho in their pomp pisses all over the current one.

There is no plan b, everything goes through the predictable greedy messi. Villa, Zlatan, Sanchez etc, all marginalised. Why on earth anyone would want the drugged up midget is beyond me.

Maintain Queiroz should be seriously considered for the United post.

Originally Posted by saffers

Dunk is spot on, why did Barca not win the european cup last season? They were beaten by the worst chelsea side since 2002 and one which finished 6th in the mediocre PL, 25(twentyfive) pts behind fergies shit@#%&!s who had no vidic.

2010 they crash out to an Inter side which did nothing but defend in the 2nd leg and were down to 10 men early in the 1st half in that game.

Their 2 victories came against Fergies shit@#%&!s who everyone has hated on here. So how great are Barca really, how great is Pep? All ill say is their 2005 team with etoo and ronaldinho in their pomp pisses all over the current one.

There is no plan b, everything goes through the predictable greedy messi. Villa, Zlatan, Sanchez etc, all marginalised. Why on earth anyone would want the drugged up midget is beyond me.

Maintain Queiroz should be seriously considered for the United post.

Saffers.

This is why you're in my Fredster of the Year top 3. Utterly nonsensical but absolutely hilarious.

Originally Posted by saffers

Why on earth anyone would want the drugged up midget is beyond me.

Saffers pal. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of growth hormone treatment. He's not 'drugged up.' He just got the same amount of growth hormone (which is not a drug) as most children produce normally. It's also dangerous to leave deficiencies untreated.

Klopp.

Originally Posted by saffers

Why on earth anyone would want the drugged up midget is beyond me.

Tbf he has scored more goals this calendar year than Liverpool.

Originally Posted by saffers

All ill say is their 2005 team with etoo and ronaldinho in their pomp pisses all over the current one.

It does not. The defence in 2005/06 team was way easier to get at.

Klopp please. Don't care if the team would be dead on its legs in april or if we don't win trophies. Surely will 100 times better to watch than the shite served weekend after weekend.

Watched dortmund dismantling ajax in midweek. They were superb. Quick passing, players movement off the ball all a joy to watch.

Originally Posted by rafabio

Klopp please. Don't care if the team would be dead on its legs in april or if we don't win trophies. Surely will 100 times better to watch than the shite served weekend after weekend.

Watched dortmund dismantling ajax in midweek. They were superb. Quick passing, players movement off the ball all a joy to watch.

It helps having the players to do so.

Originally Posted by Argentina

Rooney constantly says it. If Ferguson takes the credit for constructing a side to win championship and for creating such a great team in the 90s etc, he should take the rap for Ferdinand slowing the tempo and lumping shit straight long balls aimlessly forward.

If he goes in and rages at half time, and we come out and put in a performance like we do in the second half at Spurs, why can he not make it painfully clear to them that anything less than that 100% of the time (aside from the OCASSIONAL dip) is not acceptable. Unless of course he accepts those shit performances as we get 3 points more often than not.

i agree - i'm not suggesting fergie isn't responsible for what happens on the pitch. i think he's guilty of too much loyalty to the old guard, personally, just as he was to keane, neville etc. needs to trust the youngsters, move scholes, giggs and even rio towards the bench and eventually the door, trust evans, smalling, jones, cleverley and even anderson - or get shut if he can't trust them and get somebody else in. anderson is 24 now, cleverley 23 - they're both past the stage where they can be treated as prospects.

Originally Posted by borsuk

i agree - i'm not suggesting fergie isn't responsible for what happens on the pitch. i think he's guilty of too much loyalty to the old guard, personally, just as he was to keane, neville etc. needs to trust the youngsters, move scholes, giggs and even rio towards the bench and eventually the door, trust evans, smalling, jones, cleverley and even anderson - or get shut if he can't trust them and get somebody else in. anderson is 24 now, cleverley 23 - they're both past the stage where they can be treated as prospects.

finally some sense. If borsers can do it then surely there is hope for saf?

doesn't look like it though and borsers hits a juicy vein of truth with his wildly flailing pickaxe of judgement; united are obviously still good enough to come within top 3 easily. So a loss away to everton or norwich is not a great big deal in the grand scheme of things...
except this is the same team that were embarrassed in europe last year and were pathetic against city home and away. The same mistakes are being made. Unnessecary mistakes made by management.
We're on our way to a hiding, I can smell it in the wind. Europe will be a waste of time.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop

finally some sense. If borsers can do it then surely there is hope for saf?

doesn't look like it though and borsers hits a juicy vein of truth with his wildly flailing pickaxe of judgement; united are obviously still good enough to come within top 3 easily. So a loss away to everton or norwich is not a great big deal in the grand scheme of things...
except this is the same team that were embarrassed in europe last year and were pathetic against city home and away. The same mistakes are being made. Unnessecary mistakes made by management.
We're on our way to a hiding, I can smell it in the wind. Europe will be a waste of time.

just hoping its not against city again.

And god help us if we draw madrid or juventus since we will be humiliated.