Berbie needs to put more effort in when we don't have possession!

Second half when they had the ball he needs to be our first defender.

I was screaming at the TV for Fergie to bring Tevez on to hurry and harrass them. I feared it would cost us the result.....it didn't thank £#%&! but Berbie needs to put a bit more effort in for me.

I thought he was markedly better in that department today, and his positioning while playing alone up front was first class. Tbh Tevez would have been coming back into midfield looking for the ball anyway, but Berbie did well to stay in the right areas and create problems.

When down to ten men you don't really need two forwards to rush about and put pressure on their defenders. Why? 9/10 when the team with 10 men get the ball back there is no one up front to take the ball down or receive a pass. He did what he had to second half and be the focal point, we were still seeing an awful lot of the ball. Utterly pointless having Tevez on instead of Berbatov.

His control under pressure second half and some of the passes he received (chest high etc) were taken down with aplomb. It meant we didn't keep gifting City the ball each time we won it back.

He's 27 I think. He never was or never is going to be a player like Tevez in terms of workrate. Fergie won't ask him to change either. I think we either learn to accept that I think or there'll be a few ulcers developing before the season ends. I'll go with the former.

Originally Posted by Ether

I thought he was markedly better in that department today, and his positioning while playing alone up front was first class. Tbh Tevez would have been coming back into midfield looking for the ball anyway, but Berbie did well to stay in the right areas and create problems.

When we were attacking.......yes.

But when we were defending he wasn't interested!

Originally Posted by Whalefish

When down to ten men you don't really need two forwards to rush about and put pressure on their defenders. Why? 9/10 when the team with 10 men get the ball back there is no one up front to take the ball down or receive a pass. He did what he had to second half and be the focal point, we were still seeing an awful lot of the ball. Utterly pointless having Tevez on instead of Berbatov.

His control under pressure second half and some of the passes he received (chest high etc) were taken down with aplomb. It meant we didn't keep gifting City the ball each time we won it back.

He's 27 I think. He never was or never is going to be a player like Tevez in terms of workrate. Fergie won't ask him to change either. I think we either learn to accept that I think or there'll be a few ulcers developing before the season ends. I'll go with the former.

Ulcers.......yes I think that's the reason for my discomfort right now.

Oh, and maybe slightly higher than normal blood pressure.

I needed that derby win.....badly!

berbatov was absolutely superb today

But if he did do the harassing to the extent where you and others would have been satisfiued he may not have been able to take up the good positions when we had the ball.

And Ether's right, Tevez would've sunk into midfield. Rooney was already busting a gut through the middle and up top we'd have just lost any sort of focal point with him on instead of Berbatov.

Interesting similarities with his last visit to Eastlands. Spurs last season were down to ten men and Berbatov gave one of the best examples of playing as a lone striker under those conditions.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

But if he did do the harassing to the extent where you and others would have been satisfiued he may not have been able to take up the good positions when we had the ball.

Why not?

i dont like berbatov but i thought he played well today. first 'worthy' performance ive seen from him since we signed up imo.

he still needs to improve but at least he is looking abit better and his ball retention is brilliant and helped us alot.
reminds me of zlatan in a way but not as good.

Originally Posted by fergieslovechild

Why not?

Because he can't be two places at once? If he's harassing their defenders when they've got ball, then often he's going to have to go wide to do that or track one of them back almost to our half. If he's succesful in rushing them, they give away the ball with a hurried pass, and then we've got nobody up-front until he can get back into position. Chances are they'll give the ball away anyway because they're £#%&!ing £#%&!, so I don't really see any big benefit from doing this with 10 men.

Second half the right back brings the ball out and Berbatov stays back just enough and he goes passed. Right back (I forget who he was then) loses the ball to Carrick who plas a neat one two with Rooney before playing a lovely pass to Berbatov who then brings the ball under control and we keep the ball for a bit and take the sting out of any Div counter.

If he chases after the full back and we win the ball back - in a cluttered midfield - where's the outlet? There isn't one. We still looked an attacking threat with him playing his natural game. I see no reason to change that.

Oh - he also pressed Dunne and Kompany a fair bit today which resorted to both simply hoofing the ball aimlessly forwards. Ironically not as much when down to ten but he did work off the ball.

Originally Posted by Ether

Because he can't be two places at once? If he's harassing their defenders when they've got ball, then often he's going to have to go wide to do that or track one of them back almost to our half. If he's succesful in rushing them, they give away the ball with a hurried pass, and then we've got nobody up-front until he can get back into position. Chances are they'll give the ball away anyway because they're £#%&!ing £#%&!, so I don't really see any big benefit from doing this with 10 men.

I'm not just talking about after the sending off, he was letting their defenders have 'easy' possession before the sending off too.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

Oh - he also pressed Dunne and Kompany a fair bit today which resorted to both simply hoofing the ball aimlessly forwards. Ironically not as much when down to ten but he did work off the ball.

I thought him and Wayne both did that pretty well. Not in the Tevez style of always charging the defender down, but just by subtly working out the angles and moving enough to deny the man on the ball an easy pass laterally or straight ahead. And as you said, they had to resort to hoofing it a number of times because of this.

There was a moment midway through the second half when he went for a ball didn't get it and then just stood and watched as citeh broke away.

He had a pretty good game today though, and fortunately nothing came from that attack... citeh were about as threatening as wayne sleep.

I think he'll be told to get his arse into gear into he next few months, give him time, he'll be reet!

http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showth...56#post1267756

For me his overall performances to date - and he's a player I wasn't that keen on Utd signing at all - are further evidence why I'd much prefer Utd to sign all Summer targets within the first few weeks of that transfer window opening. A last day deal, he has essentially been going through an adaptation process in games that mean something.

A signing 4 weeks prior and he may have slotted in a bit better or we may not have noticed the inevitable teething problems.

Still, one of the SSN #@&%!s dished out some stat the other day. Number of goalscoring chances he's created since he joined. It was a silly figure - I forget the number - but says more about our finishing ability of late than anything else.

Hey ho. I'm off to drink beer now and watch a shit film.

his inclusion in the team has resulted in ronaldo hugging the touchline more.
not a good thing imo.

I'm desperate for the guy to prove himself at OT, today's performace was probably his best but still hoping he'll up his workrate.

Would love to see some statistics on ground covered in comparison to Rooney, Ronaldo & Tevez.

To be fair he played his role in what was probably our best performace of the season.

yes he has a nice touch, he's very skillful and links up well. Would be nice, you know, just a bonus or whatever if, as a striker he actually chipped in with a goal sometimes.