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Unread 20-09-2017, 11:10 AM
silv
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by irk
This "don't be a dick" business sounds all reasonable at first blush, but what it actually means is "don't say things of which we don't approve" and reserving the right to yourselves of what it is that can or can't be said.

One group reserving the right to decide the bounds of acceptability isn't at all reasonable. No consensus can be reached if no discussion can take place.

So, how about the identity left stop trying to impose an orthodoxy on everyone under the guise of obviously being the good guys. This kind of sneaky shit is part of the reason I am increasingly alienated from the so called left in this country. The rote orthodoxy that cannot be challenged lest younare denounced as a racist is the road to officially sanctioned thought and not to be trusted.



Better to explain how slavery in the US is an issue for black people in this country.

http://abolition.e2bn.org/slavery_155.html



Makes you proud to be British.

We stopped slavery before the Africans, who had to be bribed to desist from enslaving their black brothers, did. So much for the homogeneous black identity, and it has to be said collective white guilt.

Time for all parties to put an end to this simplistic and self defeating %@#$&!s.
my favourite poster
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 11:12 AM
MonkeyOnMyBack
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by irk
This "don't be a dick" business sounds all reasonable at first blush, but what it actually means is "don't say things of which we don't approve" and reserving the right to yourselves of what it is that can or can't be said.

One group reserving the right to decide the bounds of acceptability isn't at all reasonable. No consensus can be reached if no discussion can take place.

So, how about the identity left stop trying to impose an orthodoxy on everyone under the guise of obviously being the good guys. This kind of sneaky shit is part of the reason I am increasingly alienated from the so called left in this country. The rote orthodoxy that cannot be challenged lest younare denounced as a racist is the road to officially sanctioned thought and not to be trusted.



Better to explain how slavery in the US is an issue for black people in this country.

http://abolition.e2bn.org/slavery_155.html



We stopped slavery before the Africans, who had to be bribed to desist from enslaving their black brothers, did.

Makes you proud to be British.
They stopped being directly @#%&!ish to one group of people (when it was economically and stratigically advantageous to) - I cant believe you're defending the British Empire - how was India doing at that time? Really black people should be thanking us Brits everyday. Maybe some cap doffing too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by irk
What was the point? If we can't draw a line anywhere why can I not claim solidarity with the slaves on the basis of my shared humanity?

Oh, I'm excluded because I'm white.
Fair point. Go for it.
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 11:21 AM
irk
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyOnMyBack
They stopped being directly @#%&!ish to one group of people (when it was economically and stratigically advantageous to) - I cant believe you're defending the British Empire - how was India doing at that time? Really black people should be thanking us Brits everyday. Maybe some cap doffing too.
You've not even read your own link. There are many factors involved in the decision to end the slave trade. Some of them will be contradictory, some will have been pragmatic, but paramount was a recognition that it was immoral.

Now, you must try to understand this simple concept, recognising that the abolition of slavery and the active suppression of it by the British empire was good isn't to say that I approve of everything that the British empire ever did.

That kind of black and white thinking would lead me to say that you think because the British empire was bad, and because the British empire got rid of slavery, that getting rid of slavery was itself bad, and ergo you think that slavery should not have been ended.

That would be idiotic, er cretinous, no no can't say that either, silly? £#%&! it I give up.
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 11:24 AM
20 times
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silv
my favourite poster
Nah he’s a @#%&!
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 11:24 AM
irk
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyOnMyBack
Fair point. Go for it.
I do. That's where we came in. Pointing out the idiocy of the divisive claim that the Twitter nutter made of special kinship based on skin colour. Try to keep up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20 times
Nah he’s a @#%&!
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 11:28 AM
Ronalds
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by irk
You've not even read your own link. There are many factors involved in the decision to end the slave trade. Some of them will be contradictory, some will have been pragmatic, but paramount was a recognition that it was immoral.

Now, you must try to understand this simple concept, recognising that the abolition of slavery and the active suppression of it by the British empire was good isn't to say that I approve of everything that the British empire ever did.

That kind of black and white thinking would lead me to say that you think because the British empire was bad, and because the British empire got rid of slavery, that getting rid of slavery was itself bad, and ergo you think that slavery should not have been ended.

That would be idiotic, er cretinous, no no can't say that either, silly? £#%&! it I give up.
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 11:31 AM
Finport Red
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyOnMyBack
A cultural hangover remains - a lot of people are people are still racist, no idea why. Ive a feeling Jewish people will remain touchy for while longer too. I dont know many Hutus and Tutsis in my part of town but if a pair lived next door to each other id guess they'd be a few awkward moments when leaving for work at the same time.



Tell me how suggesting - slavery isn't an issue for white people in this country - is racist?
Because you don't have the authority to decide who, or which people group, slavery is or isn't an issue for.

This country is made up of practically every race of people on the planet, yet you only selected white people, a single race group, as those for whom slavery isn't an issue. That is, by definition, a racist statement.
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 11:41 AM
utd99
 
Default

I'm not sure anyone really knows what true racism is anymore; it was weaponised by the left a long time ago and never reality checked by general society at any stage. It's a terrible disservice to people who actually are discriminated against because the injustices they suffer have been drowned out by this new, incessantly loud redefined version whose justification appears to be anyone, anywhere who's offended by anything. What madness is this that evidence and logic are now subordinate to the idea that 'if i say it is then it is'.

People are getting tired of it. Good people who say and do nothing discriminatory are tired of being lathered with this label yet are defenseless against the accusation that they must be thinking it either conciously or subconciously because, let's face it, their granddad must have been racist and must have had a hand in their upbringing; case closed.

People are getting tired of it, and when they're under constant bombardment by the left, where do they turn? That's right, politicians like Trump.
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 11:41 AM
MonkeyOnMyBack
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by irk
You've not even read your own link. There are many factors involved in the decision to end the slave trade. Some of them will be contradictory, some will have been pragmatic, but paramount was a recognition that it was immoral.

I disagree. You think too highly of the establishment - especially at that time.

Now, you must try to understand this simple concept, recognising that the abolition of slavery and the active suppression of it by the British empire was good isn't to say that I approve of everything that the British empire ever did.

No slaves here :thumbs up: - but at roughly the same time allowing 10 million to starve to death in India. Its hard not to be suspicious of motives and intent of the good when overshadowed so.

That kind of black and white thinking would lead me to say that you think because the British empire was bad, and because the British empire got rid of slavery, that getting rid of slavery was itself bad, and ergo you think that slavery should not have been ended.

That would be idiotic, er cretinous, no no can't say that either, silly? £#%&! it I give up.
No. But i wouldnt feel the need to thank a guy who mugged me every day for 50 years then one day had change of heart and didnt mug me anymore. Best i could manage would be "well done, you're not a dick"
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 11:42 AM
Baron
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by irk
This "don't be a dick" business sounds all reasonable at first blush, but what it actually means is "don't say things of which we don't approve" and reserving the right to yourselves of what it is that can or can't be said.

One group reserving the right to decide the bounds of acceptability isn't at all reasonable. No consensus can be reached if no discussion can take place.
Maybe in the wider context.

But this particular context, implying Lukaku apparently takes the pitch with a spare towel & a fedora on at all times, means it's a very specific "thing we don't approve of" - which isn't that difficult to agree with is it?

If people were happy to take all things on their own merit & not generalise based on looks, that's pretty straight-forward.
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 11:44 AM
MonkeyOnMyBack
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by irk
I do. That's where we came in. Pointing out the idiocy of the divisive claim that the Twitter nutter made of special kinship based on skin colour. Try to keep up.



https://youtu.be/JMw1GmJzF6A
:Whoosh:
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 11:49 AM
silv
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
I'm not sure anyone really knows what true racism is anymore; it was weaponised by the left a long time ago and never reality checked by general society at any stage. It's a terrible disservice to people who actually are discriminated against because the injustices they suffer have been drowned out by this new, incessantly loud redefined version whose justification appears to be anyone, anywhere who's offended by anything. What madness is this that evidence and logic are now subordinate to the idea that 'if i say it is then it is'.

People are getting tired of it. Good people who say and do nothing discriminatory are tired of being lathered with this label yet are defenseless against the accusation that they must be thinking it either conciously or subconciously because, let's face it, their granddad must have been racist and must have had a hand in their upbringing; case closed.

People are getting tired of it, and when they're under constant bombardment by the left, where do they turn? That's right, politicians like Trump.
Ultra liberalism caused Brexit
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 11:56 AM
Fish
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron
Maybe in the wider context.

But this particular context, implying Lukaku apparently takes the pitch with a spare towel & a fedora on at all times, means it's a very specific "thing we don't approve of" - which isn't that difficult to agree with is it?

If people were happy to take all things on their own merit & not generalise based on looks, that's pretty straight-forward.

Totally Impossible, we are human. Even if we don't know we do it, we do it. whether ethnicity, fashion , looks , sex we make snap judgements at the first glance.
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 11:56 AM
utd99
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silv
Ultra liberalism caused Brexit
You may be right. It's almost certainly the reason why Clinton lost an unloseable election to one of the most deeply unpopular candidates in history, but they never seem to ask why. They've become so intoxicated by the effectiveness of labelling that they don't seem to have a plan B anymore, so instead of asking why they just label some more.....
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 12:15 PM
irk
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyOnMyBack
I disagree. You think too highly of the establishment - especially at that time.
Fair enough. You're entitled to be wrong. I mean it's undisputedly true and documented, but why let facts get in the way.
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 12:17 PM
signed dc
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronalds
Lets not forget Lukaku's parents are from the Democratic Republic of the Congo where studies found they on average have the largest c**ks in the world, that's not a racial sterotype it's just a cold hard researched fact
Just catching up on this thread - Have we established which institution(s) were responsible for these studies?
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 12:21 PM
MonkeyOnMyBack
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by irk
Fair enough. You're entitled to be wrong. I mean it's undisputedly true and documented, but why let facts get in the way.
You seem surprisingly naive on how history is written.
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 12:25 PM
Sapien
 
Default

Microagression after microagression from the lad irk. They can't help theirself.
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 12:28 PM
My Name is Keith
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
I'm not sure anyone really knows what true racism is anymore; it was weaponised by the left a long time ago and never reality checked by general society at any stage. It's a terrible disservice to people who actually are discriminated against because the injustices they suffer have been drowned out by this new, incessantly loud redefined version whose justification appears to be anyone, anywhere who's offended by anything. What madness is this that evidence and logic are now subordinate to the idea that 'if i say it is then it is'.

People are getting tired of it. Good people who say and do nothing discriminatory are tired of being lathered with this label yet are defenseless against the accusation that they must be thinking it either conciously or subconciously because, let's face it, their granddad must have been racist and must have had a hand in their upbringing; case closed.

People are getting tired of it, and when they're under constant bombardment by the left, where do they turn? That's right, politicians like Trump.
Bang on. The greatest threat the left have is the left itself.
 
Unread 20-09-2017, 12:30 PM
utd99
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron
& yet the discussion is about purveying that judgement based not on any discernibly true observation, but perceived.
Isn't this the definition of every joke ever told about anyone? Whether the joke is funny or not is another subject entirely -- this one isn't --, however if I heard Dave Chappelle tell a joke based on his perception of white people, and it was funny, I'd laugh my arse off. I wouldn't be sitting there wondering if it were discernably true or not.

We need to draw a line between asking people to conduct themselves with decency (which is reasonable) and acting like automotons (which is not).
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