OFFICIAL: Manchester United v Tottenham Hotspurs | Sky Sports | Premier League

Originally Posted by puressence

Punching your screen ffs your an old man you barmy old @#%&!

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

So, according to some:

Draw at anfield, missing a few key players, not good enough.
Winning 1-0 against tottenham, missing Pogba, not good enough.
Sticking 4 past cannon fodder on numerous occasions. Not good enough.

What is good enough for a united manager less than 18 months into a job?

you would appear to be confusing results and performance.

Originally Posted by utd99

It wasn’t the draw at Anfield that was the problem, it was the way we played. We had at least as good a chance of winning that game as they did, but we pretty much ensured it was either going to be a draw or they nick a winner. It didn’t have to be that way.

I don’t think many were complaining about beating Spurs or the big wins, were they?

Not complaining, but still critical.

BT spent much of their analysis of a completely different game yesterday talking about how United's football isn't acceptable.

After beating spurs. Playing two up front. Off the back of a defeat.

The same pundits who, a few weeks ago, were probably praising us for the 4-0 wins.

We're getting by at the moment.. not playing our best and missing some key players. If we can keep in touch and remain this difficult to beat, I'm prepared to reserve judgement on our style until the end of the season and a second full season of Mourinho.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

So, according to some:

Draw at anfield, missing a few key players, not good enough.
Winning 1-0 against tottenham, missing Pogba, not good enough.
Sticking 4 past cannon fodder on numerous occasions. Not good enough.

What is good enough for a united manager less than 18 months into a job?

What's good enough for you is the answer.

What do you want?

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

Not complaining, but still critical.

BT spent much of their analysis of a completely different game yesterday talking about how United's football isn't acceptable.

After beating spurs. Playing two up front. Off the back of a defeat.

The same pundits who, a few weeks ago, were probably praising us for the 4-0 wins.

We're getting by at the moment.. not playing our best and missing some key players. If we can keep in touch and remain this difficult to beat, I'm prepared to reserve judgement on our style until the end of the season and a second full season of Mourinho.

Sensationalising United doing poorly makes better news/copy than just saying it was a tough game between two good teams. The premier league these days is marketed as 90% sensational tittle-tattle and 10% actual football stuff.

People are always very good at pointing out how United should play but never really sit there and analyse whether the 11 players on the pitch are good enough to execute it or not. It's kind of hard to play incisive, attacking football every single game when the minute your defenders come under any sort of pressure they panic and punt the ball up the touchline.

Is the manager telling them to get into situations where they're isolated against 3 spurs players pressuring them so they have no option but to give it straight back or it just yet another case of United having an unbalanced team with square pegs in round holes?

One thing I noticed yesterday is the difference in how slowly United move the ball compared with the other teams at the top. This really has been a problem particularly since Van Gaal took over. We play at an absolute snail's pace most of the time and seem to take forever to move the ball about.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Sensationalising United doing poorly makes better news/copy than just saying it was a tough game between two good teams. The premier league these days is marketed as 90% sensational tittle-tattle and 10% actual football stuff.

People are always very good at pointing out how United should play but never really sit there and analyse whether the 11 players on the pitch are good enough to execute it or not. It's kind of hard to play incisive, attacking football every single game when the minute your defenders come under any sort of pressure they panic and punt the ball up the touchline.

Is the manager telling them to get into situations where they're isolated against 3 spurs players pressuring them so they have no option but to give it straight back or it just yet another case of United having an unbalanced team with square pegs in round holes?

One thing I noticed yesterday is the difference in how slowly United move the ball compared with the other teams at the top. This really has been a problem particularly since Van Gaal took over. We play at an absolute snail's pace most of the time and seem to take forever to move the ball about.

Which is another reason why possession statistics are among the most useless in football. It doesn’t indicate anything about the quality of the possession nor the intent once you have it. That was the biggest single problem under Van Gaal.

Originally Posted by utd99

Which is another reason why possession statistics are among the most useless in football. It doesn’t indicate anything about the quality of the possession nor the intent once you have it. That was the biggest single problem under Van Gaal.

Possession stats give you an idea of which side was more proactive. Of course it doesn't give you anything about quality or efficiency. Oddly the most informative stat in expected goals has received much derision by many, despite it bringing that detailed and more human anyalysis people say stats lack.

Damn that's a boring post. But you're getting it anyway.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Possession stats give you an idea of which side was more proactive. Of course it doesn't give you anything about quality or efficiency. Oddly the most informative stat in expected goals has received much derision by many, despite it bringing that detailed and more human anyalysis people say stats lack.

Damn that's a boring post. But you're getting it anyway.

I just hate this one dimensional assumption that seemed to gain traction over the period of Barcelona’s dominance of European football that replicating their possession stats somehow replicated their football. Rodgers symbolised this with his typical soundbite about “death by football”.

It’s just so untrue.

Originally Posted by utd99

I just hate this one dimensional assumption that seemed to gain traction over the period of Barcelona’s dominance of European football that replicating their possession stats somehow replicated their football. Rodgers symbolised this with his typical soundbite about “death by football”.

It’s just so untrue.

the possession football in barcelona's case was usually punctuated by them giving the ball to Messi who would then beat 3 or 4 players before banging the ball in the top corner...or giving it to iniesta who would deliver a killer pass though a crowded penalty box.

It solves all your problems when you have 3 of the best 5 players in world football all playing up front for you.

Originally Posted by utd99

I just hate this one dimensional assumption that seemed to gain traction over the period of Barcelona’s dominance of European football that replicating their possession stats somehow replicated their football. Rodgers symbolised this with his typical soundbite about “death by football”.

It’s just so untrue.

I'm not sure people see it that way in England. Every week we are blessed with the laser sharp analysis of "it's not about possession, it's what you do with it" etc. In a league that still has huge emphasis on the direct approach and counter attack, being effective as a more modern possession and positional based side is a challenge. Guardiola is making it look easy now and that may have a revolutionary effect, but he's spent a fortune to get there.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

the possession football in barcelona's case was usually punctuated by them giving the ball to Messi who would then beat 3 or 4 players before banging the ball in the top corner...or giving it to iniesta who would deliver a killer pass though a crowded penalty box.

It solves all your problems when you have 3 of the best 5 players in world football all playing up front for you.

Correct.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I'm not sure people see it that way in England. Every week we are blessed with the laser sharp analysis of "it's not about possession, it's what you do with it" etc. In a league that still has huge emphasis on the direct approach and counter attack, being effective as a more modern possession and positional based side is a challenge. Guardiola is making it look easy now and that may have a revolutionary effect, but he's spent a fortune to get there.

The "it's not about possession..." line is trotted out when a team has more possession and doesn't win.

If they do, like city are now, we marvel at it and admit how much they "pass and move".

Such insight.

Might aswell say "its not about how many goals you score, it's whether it's more the opposition"

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I'm not sure people see it that way in England. Every week we are blessed with the laser sharp analysis of "it's not about possession, it's what you do with it" etc. In a league that still has huge emphasis on the direct approach and counter attack, being effective as a more modern possession and positional based side is a challenge. Guardiola is making it look easy now and that may have a revolutionary effect, but he's spent a fortune to get there.

I think the argument over how wonderful this guy is kind of blew up when his first full time replacement at Barcelona won the treble after being in the job 5 mins.

It's easy to play to an extremely strict philosophy and look good doing it when you have a plethora of the world's best players to select from and the guts of Spains double european and world champions squad.

Moving onto his next Herculean task at a club like Bayern who have no domestic rivals and, shock horror, the guts of the German world cup winning squad to pick from.

Then he moves onto Man City and this phenomenal coach, this genius among mere mortals, apparently couldn't possibly be expected to win any silverware without first spending £400 million over the course of 12 months in charge.

Put simply, Guardiola makes it look easy because he has to have the absolute best players at his disposal. Anything less and he'd do £#%&! all.

Originally Posted by utd99

It wasn’t the draw at Anfield that was the problem, it was the way we played. We had at least as good a chance of winning that game as they did, but we pretty much ensured it was either going to be a draw or they nick a winner. It didn’t have to be that way.

I don’t think many were complaining about beating Spurs or the big wins, were they?

From the previous page on this very thread:

Originally Posted by Alan

IMO your recollections of the start of the season are a bit revisionist. Mourinho doesn't take risks. IMO those games were mostly mind numbing with late goals scored on the break against tiring shit teams.

Originally Posted by Sandman

What isn't good enough is his entire approach to football, sticking some trophies on a pile of shit, doesn't make the pile of shit more appealing.

Fergie seemed to get away with it in latter years. Then again the football, played in latter years has probably been upgraded to all out attacking brilliance since he retired.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Put simply, Guardiola makes it look easy because he has to have the absolute best players at his disposal. Anything less and he'd do £#%&! all.

we know someone like that, don't we, children?

Originally Posted by jem

we know someone like that, don't we, children?

Bit harsh considering he broke on to the scene leading Porto to the CL

Originally Posted by jem

we know someone like that, don't we, children?

Who?

Originally Posted by Sparky***

I think the argument over how wonderful this guy is kind of blew up when his first full time replacement at Barcelona won the treble after being in the job 5 mins.

It's easy to play to an extremely strict philosophy and look good doing it when you have a plethora of the world's best players to select from and the guts of Spains double european and world champions squad.

Moving onto his next Herculean task at a club like Bayern who have no domestic rivals and, shock horror, the guts of the German world cup winning squad to pick from.

Then he moves onto Man City and this phenomenal coach, this genius among mere mortals, apparently couldn't possibly be expected to win any silverware without first spending £400 million over the course of 12 months in charge.

Put simply, Guardiola makes it look easy because he has to have the absolute best players at his disposal. Anything less and he'd do f*** all.

Don't forget that his style of football is, in fact, quite boring really.

Originally Posted by believe

Bit harsh considering he broke on to the scene leading Porto to the CL

cheating.

at least he hasn't got united doing that yet. even young.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Put simply, Guardiola makes it look easy because he has to have the absolute best players at his disposal. Anything less and he'd do £#%&! all.

Not sure I agree with that tbh. Aguero, Silva, Fernandinho were already there, and I don’t think the likes of Jesus, Sterling or Sane were making any top ten lists before they were signed, were they?

That said, they haven’t won anything apart from the bonfire night league yet, so it could easily be ‘as you were’ by season’s end. What he has done well thus far is replace players like Zabaletta, Sagna, Toure, Hart (though that took a couple of goes), Kolorov, Navas, Mangala and Nasri with upgrades -again, none from the Fifpro team- and has them playing with freedom and confidence.

Pretty much exactly what Mourinho has to do with our gaggle of sub-pars.