The Young Guvnors book

Originally Posted by Gypsum Fantastic

no way that has been published - pretty much unreadable. one full stop in the whole thing, what a disgrace.

he should be running whoever was supposed to be his editor, not west fackin' 'am.

shadowplay will be turning in his grave.

Originally Posted by shenwen

must be self published.

because a. he has the grammar of a six year old, and b. it is an awful pile of shit.

I don't think the extract Felix posted is from the finished version. Looks like a page of the original m@&%!cript prior to Peter Walsh getting hold of it.

Originally Posted by carlosartorial

*Not a popular opinion to have nowadays given the lesser imitations it spawned, but 'Fever Pitch' was a great book.

I've never read that, mainly because of it's reputation and the fact it spawned a movie starring Colin Firth

'A Season With Verona' is excellent.

Originally Posted by The Watcher

I've never read that, mainly because of it's reputation and the fact it spawned a movie starring Colin Firth

'A Season With Verona' is excellent.

Nothing like the film and a very enjoyable read back in 92 or whenever it first came out. Probably seems dated now mind.

Originally Posted by The Watcher

I've never read that, mainly because of it's reputation and the fact it spawned a movie starring Colin Firth

'A Season With Verona' is excellent.

The film is pretty much completely unrelated. Fever Pitch has great chapters on racism, Hillsborough, Heysel and so on.

Originally Posted by Zorg

The film is pretty much completely unrelated. Fever Pitch has great chapters on racism, Hillsborough, Heysel and so on.

Agree with the praise for FP here - remember reading most of it in one sitting

Hornby is of course an easy target, but much of what he wrote in that will "click" with most fans regardless of club.

Originally Posted by carlosartorial

Don't you ever picture yourself at the ground when you're watching on telly?

ouch!

Originally Posted by Zorg

Football fans fighting - why do people find this so interesting?

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop

imagine reading a full book about football supporters thinking they're some band of barbarians

They probably think they're hard when they're reading it. Pictureing themselves there, standing on a road shouting at a crowd, the adrenalin of throwing a bottle at something then running down a street.

it's true. nothing sadder than a bunch of fully grown men windmilling at each other over a £#%&!ing game of football.

relates to a distinct lack of developed frontal lobes i think.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

it's true. nothing sadder than a bunch of fully grown men windmilling at each other over a £#%&!ing game of football.

relates to a distinct lack of developed frontal lobes i think.

Or alternatively, if men are going to fight about anything in life then it may as well be about football.

It's not my bag but if you remove the threat of potential violence and antagonism from football, we might as well pack it in and go and watch ice hockey at the MEN.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

relates to a distinct lack of developed frontal lobes i think.

surely failing to understand humanity and why men have a desire to be tribal and commit violence against others relates to a distinct lack of developed frontal lobes.

Originally Posted by carlosartorial

Or alternatively, if men are going to fight about anything in life then it may as well be about football.

It's not my bag but if you remove the threat of potential violence and antagonism from football, we might as well pack it in and go and watch ice hockey at the MEN.

Don't agree with that meself, I think there's lots of room between the two extremes.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Don't agree with that meself, I think there's lots of room between the two extremes.

Hmmmm. I still like hearing of tear-ups with city in town and all that. Too much of a fanny to get involved myself but don't think it does any harm for united fans to have a reputation of being a bunch of bloodthirsty nasty bastards. Childish but £#%&! it.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Don't agree with that meself, I think there's lots of room between the two extremes.

Really? Take the edge seen at games vs Leeds, Liverpool and City away and there's £#%&! all left, surely? Old Trafford 2012 is theme park-esque enough as it is.

A lot of crap gets spoken about 'identity' and 'culture' but I wouldn't like to see it further eroded (personally speaking).

Since time has began man has fought with man, they have fought over territory, pride and mates, football has very little to do with it when you break it down, it's simply pack mentality, we are better than you, you are on our patch and we are going to fight about it. if you banned football man would fight over cricket, if you banned boxing man would fight in the back alleys, it's human nature whether you like it or not, it really is, some people are better civilized than others but as i've said time and time again we are merely animals with thumbs, we are just the most dangerous animals on the planet.

PLUS, it's a great buzz when it goes off

Originally Posted by carlosartorial

Really? Take the edge seen at games vs Leeds, Liverpool and City away and there's £#%&! all left, surely? Old Trafford 2012 is theme park-esque enough as it is.

A lot of crap gets spoken about 'identity' and 'culture' but I wouldn't like to see it further eroded (personally speaking).

This. Cant believe anyone who has been to a match against City, Liverpool or Leeds hasn't felt some twinge of aggression towards the opposing team and their fans. There's a tangible tension that surrounds such matches - or there at least used to be- and it adds to the excitement. It doesn't demand you 'take arms' but it demands your attention as a supporter.

As said elsewhere, quite like the fact that United ruled the roost (or did for many years). Going out in town after most of the derbies against City in years gone by was a pleasurable event. Horrible if you were a city fan though and again, I like that because I hate the blue @#%&!s.

Originally Posted by carlosartorial

I don't think the extract Felix posted is from the finished version. Looks like a page of the original m@&%!cript prior to Peter Walsh getting hold of it.

It is from the finished version mate, believe it or not
The book description http://www.amazon.co.uk/Young-Guvnor.../dp/1434390985

Naturally I'm interested in reading about football and it's culture. Sadly 99% of these books, apart from Perry Boys and Awaydays, are egotistical accounts of violence and self-promotion, rather than an interest of documenting and describing a largely misunderstood 'scene'.
Season with Verona is pretty good too, I'd recommend this:
http://www.tprphotography.com/section117832.html

Best football related book I've read is Col Blaney's Grafters.

It's more about robbing and the like, with smatterings of United.

Top read mind.

Originally Posted by ReligiousRed

Since time has began man has fought with man, they have fought over territory, pride and mates, football has very little to do with it when you break it down, it's simply pack mentality, we are better than you, you are on our patch and we are going to fight about it. if you banned football man would fight over cricket, if you banned boxing man would fight in the back alleys, it's human nature whether you like it or not, it really is, some people are better civilized than others but as i've said time and time again we are merely animals with thumbs, we are just the most dangerous animals on the planet.

PLUS, it's a great buzz when it goes off

This.

It's the £#%&!ing stone island brigade that do my head in, giving it the biggun behind police lines, treading carefully incase they get their trainers dirty.

Originally Posted by carlosartorial

Really? Take the edge seen at games vs Leeds, Liverpool and City away and there's £#%&! all left, surely? Old Trafford 2012 is theme park-esque enough as it is.

A lot of crap gets spoken about 'identity' and 'culture' but I wouldn't like to see it further eroded (personally speaking).

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

This. Cant believe anyone who has been to a match against City, Liverpool or Leeds hasn't felt some twinge of aggression towards the opposing team and their fans. There's a tangible tension that surrounds such matches - or there at least used to be- and it adds to the excitement. It doesn't demand you 'take arms' but it demands your attention as a supporter.

Agree with these and I can definitely see where you're coming from. 'Edge' I have no problem with, it definitely adds something in certain games, and I do see that removing that edge is the first step down the road to jester hats. But actual violence - mainly of the organised, arranged kind - I've always found pretty cringeworthy. To me there's a world of difference between vermin and United supporters spitting hatred at each other from either end ('powder keg atmosphere, Gary'), which we've all buzzed off, and some spotty 16 year old Telford fan having a go at my OAP dad after a friendly. What's the point of that? It doesn't add any edge to anything.

As I said, I think there's room in between the two extremes, not that I think the 'edge' should be completely removed. I just don't think it's quite the case that if you remove actual physical violence you inevitably get ice hockey. imo.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Agree with these and I can definitely see where you're coming from. 'Edge' I have no problem with, it definitely adds something in certain games, and I do see that removing that edge is the first step down the road to jester hats. But actual violence - mainly of the organised, arranged kind - I've always found pretty cringeworthy. To me there's a world of difference between vermin and United supporters spitting hatred at each other from either end ('powder keg atmosphere, Gary'), which we've all buzzed off, and some spotty 16 year old Telford fan having a go at my OAP dad after a friendly. What's the point of that? It doesn't add any edge to anything.

As I said, I think there's room in between the two extremes, not that I think the 'edge' should be completely removed. I just don't think it's quite the case that if you remove actual physical violence you inevitably get ice hockey. imo.

You can't have one without the other though, unfortunately.

Plus imagine how satisfying it would have been to have seen that 16 year old Telford fan put on his arse in revenge for having a pop at your old man...not that I condone violence blah, blah, blah...