Sepp Blatter and his 'stop the english dominating' campaign.

Originally Posted by believe

*tin hat on*

i'm all in favour.

manchester united - or any team - should be more than a brand name, more than a collection of superstars with only a passing loyalty to the club and the fans. teams should have contemporary roots in the local community, not just historical ones. united, unusually, still have those roots, thanks in large part to the enduring wonder generation, but the relative important of local - or even home grown - talent in the squad is slowly, sadly, shrinking.

i don't agree that an unregulated free market in football is a good thing. actually, i don't agree that an unregulated free market in anything is a good thing, but let's put that aside. i think football clubs should be a part of the community whose name they bear and who they represent. i don't think that there should be a permanent elite whose financial dominance and ability to monopolise the best players in the world, sometimes buying players solely so that rivals cannot have them, means that they are unchallenged and unchallengable by other teams.

i don't think that reducing teams to franchises with weaker and weaker roots in their traditional home communities is a good thing, nor do i think it a good thing that the biggest teams are so much bigger than everybody else. i think it is ridiculous, for example, that teams like arsenal can put out a side without a single uk player and somehow claim to be england's representatives in the champions league. i think it's harmful to football and it turns teams into brands - great for the owners, the sponsors etc. and terrible for the fans and the game.

teams should have to have a certain number of local players in the team and a certain number of home-grown/youth team products in the squad imo. i'm with sepp wholeheartedly on this one. i hate the slimy little £#%&! as much as the next right-thinking man but even he gets something right once in a while. the issue of passports needs to be looked at, of course. there are some absurd examples around and teams from spain and italy abuse the system outrageously. before any limits can work this needs to be dealt with, but it does not change the correctness of the initial idea.


btw, i think united represent a shining light in this regard. with the money we have we could very easily do an arsenal and just buy young foreign talent wholesale, but fergie retains and old-fashioned commitment to an english (british/uk) heart to the team. replace vds with foster and the cl final team has six english players: wes, hargreaves, carrick, scholes, rooney. that should, imho, be the norm, not the exception.

I agree with your sentiments but to be honest, the top clubs have been losing touch with their communities for years - at United, we've actively encouraged OOT's for well over 20 years - perhaps longer.

Would be interested to hear what fans from lower divisions or even priced -out local fans read into a United fan bemoaning the possibility that clubs will turn into brands - surely, it's already happened?

None of the above gets us away from the fact that Sepp is smoking his own pipe and nothing more.

As a proposal - it's unlikely to be ever implemented.

As a political statement - alot of people will nod their heads and say, 'it's a shame isn't it?' and that will be the end of it.

Maybe as a token gesture each team could play a 39th game at the end of every season only playing English players. The tournament could be played in Cornwall on Christmas day.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

Blatter is right

United's line-up in Moscow had six English players in it as well

The rule should say that there must be 6 nationals* on the pitch at all times (with an exception made for red cards)

To say this is illegal us utter fantasy





*you know what i £#%&!ing mean

Disgrace.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

I agree with your sentiments but to be honest, the top clubs have been losing touch with their communities for years - at United, we've actively encouraged OOT's for well over 20 years - perhaps longer.

Would be interested to hear what fans from lower divisions or even priced -out local fans read into a United fan bemoaning the possibility that clubs will turn into brands - surely, it's already happened?

None of the above gets us away from the fact that Sepp is smoking his own pipe and nothing more.

As a proposal - it's unlikely to be ever implemented.

As a political statement - alot of people will nod their heads and say, 'it's a shame isn't it?' and that will be the end of it.

i agree with what you say, mnik, that there's a lot of stable doors and horses about it. even so, the process isn't irreversible. the philosophy of globalisation and the consequential process of downplaying local needs and denying the validity of non-commoditisable values such as tradition have passed their high-water mark. the world is moving away from the ideologues of globalisation and this is just one small aspect of that.

there's no reason why rules can't be changed, if the will is there. the only thing certain to make it impossible is if those with most to gain - the fans - decide that it is impossible and cede the fight.

Originally Posted by borsuk

i agree with what you say, mnik, that there's a lot of stable doors and horses about it. even so, the process isn't irreversible. the philosophy of globalisation and the consequential process of downplaying local needs and denying the validity of non-commoditisable values such as tradition have passed their high-water mark. the world is moving away from the ideologues of globalisation and this is just one small aspect of that.

there's no reason why rules can't be changed, if the will is there. the only thing certain to make it impossible is if those with most to gain - the fans - decide that it is impossible and cede the fight.

i don't particularly agree with that tbh. people in power will spread whatever message they feel necessary in trying to protect what they have.

doesn't alter the fact we had 6 English starters on the pitch in Moscow, mind

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

i don't particularly agree with that tbh. people in power will spread whatever message they feel necessary in trying to protect what they have.

'course they will, but i wasn't referring to what people in power say or do, but what they are able to force on us at any given time. things have changed a lot over the last decade or so.

chelsea could have had four english lads playing as well if joe cole had been there

Originally Posted by borsuk

'course they will, but i wasn't referring to what people in power say or do, but what they are able to force on us at any given time. things have changed a lot over the last decade or so.

chelsea could have had four english lads playing as well if joe cole had been there

the more things change the more they stay the same

people in power are not necessarily the powers that be

I'm all for it too, think it's very important for the future of the game in this country. If you think it's been thought up to stop the English dominating then you're quite frankly deluded.

And I'm still not convinced it's illegal or against the EU constitution or whatever. County Cricket has employed restrictions on overseas players for years, and I'm sure other sports do too.

Originally Posted by Ether

I'm all for it too, think it's very important for the future of the game in this country. If you think it's been thought up to stop the English dominating then you're quite frankly deluded.

And I'm still not convinced it's illegal or against the EU constitution or whatever. County Cricket has employed restrictions on overseas players for years, and I'm sure other sports do too.

They will only apply to people from outside the EU. As far as the rules are concerned, all EU nationals are nationals.

Originally Posted by Ether

And I'm still not convinced it's illegal or against the EU constitution or whatever. County Cricket has employed restrictions on overseas players for years, and I'm sure other sports do too.

Cricket can do it because all the good foreigners are from non-EU countries.

The EU cannot control the rules of any particular sport, though.

Sniffer, you came up with a very good point as to why this might not be the case last time we had this type of thread.

Sadly, I was so shocked I've forgotten what you said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...pe/7421348.stm

the point Blatter makes about remedying the situation of 4 teams in the quarters from the same association by introducing a 6 plus 5 rule is curious, especially since his argument seems to be largely about making each association's league more competitive.

a better way to achieve more variation in the latter stages of the CL would be to alter the qualification rules. no country can have more than 3 entries for a start. and no team that hasn't won their own domestic league in the previous x number of seasons can qualify either. this maintains the high level of the CL's competition, and also prevents teams simply targetting a top 3 domestic finish to play CL football.

ffs let's just have a super league and be done with it.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

The EU cannot control the rules of any particular sport, though.

Sniffer, you came up with a very good point as to why this might not be the case last time we had this type of thread.

Sadly, I was so shocked I've forgotten what you said.

The rules of that sport have to abide with the law though. If Uefa brought in a rule that a red card also meant you were executed, this could not be brought in as it is against the law. The same principle applies. The EU are more likely to ban football than allow EU citizens to be discriminated against inside the EU.

Blatter will die before this is brought in. A day I know we are all looking forward to.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...pe/7421348.stm

the point Blatter makes about remedying the situation of 4 teams in the quarters from the same association by introducing a 6 plus 5 rule is curious, especially since his argument seems to be largely about making each association's league more competitive.

i love the quote from keegan (just love it, love it). He said: "As Newcastle manager Kevin Keegan recently said: 'I can only start my season to fight to be fifth or sixth or seventh. It is impossible for me to go into the final four'. he doesn't seem to realise it's nothing to do with foreign players or cash, just keegan honestly admitting what a shite coach he is.

ffs let's just have a super league and be done with it.

yeah, let's all just bend over and grab our ankles, eh.