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Unread 12-09-2008, 09:49 AM
My Name is Keith
 
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So come on Dodge. Where would you rank Wenger in a list of modern managers?
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 10:00 AM
Baron
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snifter
As TheNew says, wouldn't have got away with his record over the last couple of years at United, I find it interesting that the Arsenal board and fans are apparently willing to indulge him in this 'experiment' he has of getting all these young players together and seeing if they develop into a winning team. Wonder if that will change if they win £#%&! all again this year ?


Arsenal are in a very precarious position financially. They spout %@#$&!s from the top about indulging Wenger with £30m for a player if needed, knowing full well he's never done that so there is no expectation from the fans for it to occur. They are paying back a fortune for the stadium, Wenger drove them to relocate & set them up for the future. Albeit something like 17 years before it's actually officially paid for... but the board will also know that whoever replaces him will, realistically, not be able to compete on the budget Wenger has. By compete I mean consistent top 4, q/f of CL & a cup run. The last 5 years have seen Arsenal make a net profit on their transfers I believe, in the same period he's been competing against us spending fortunes & Chelsea. Even Liverpool spend more. Knowing you probably can't compete in this environment & you're a small mistake away from financially ruining a complete football club a la Leeds is enough pressure.

Only an idiot would assume that you could win anything in the current environment without spending absolute fortunes.

Wenger is a #@&%!, all top managers are. He's a hypocrit, a terrible loser, & a vulture who preys on the laws regulating kids playing in foriegn leagues.

I wouldn't want him anywhere near United, but it's impossible to say he's not the perfect manager for Arsenal.
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 10:01 AM
dodger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My Name is Keith
So come on Dodge. Where would you rank Wenger in a list of modern managers?
I dunno, how far can I go back?
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 10:07 AM
The Watcher
 
Thumbs down

Respect him? This is the same @#%&! that defended his players hacking Nani after he made them look like @#%&!s; but a few weeks later is demading Taylor gets a life time ban for his tackle on Edwardo?

£#%&! off.
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 10:09 AM
My Name is Keith
 
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I dunno. 1990? I'm not that arsed now to be honest. I've got to do some work.

And if you can't be arsed responding then don't worry on my account. I won't hold it against you at all.

Let me be quite clear on that.

Bottom line is that the moment's passed for me now and I've got to move on.
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 10:28 AM
dodger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My Name is Keith
I dunno. 1990? I'm not that arsed now to be honest. I've got to do some work.

And if you can't be arsed responding then don't worry on my account. I won't hold it against you at all.

Let me be quite clear on that.

Bottom line is that the moment's passed for me now and I've got to move on.
Ok I'll put something together for this afternoon.
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 12:42 PM
Baron
 
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You don't need Walter Smith, you've just lost the ability to count

& I don't think you can make a genuine comparison between Wenger & Mourinho given their respective budgets. Even at Porto he outspent his rivals domestically, then the year they won the CL it was pure cheating. Not to mention they had their domestic fixtures re-arranged to allow them maximum rest. Monaco were also afforded that luxury that season & reached the final also. Porto have also been found guilty of match fixing.

Mourinho is tainted where ever he's gone. Results or not, you'd be hard stretched to find anyone who'd want a season ticket at the club he managed in comparison with one run by Wenger.

I can't find a great deal of fault with the rest of that though, Benitez is living off his Spanish exploits & the biggest fluke of all time though...

I'd have Wenger higher, Mourinho & Benitez lower.
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 12:54 PM
Zorg
 
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I don't think that's a fair comparison there, dodger.

For a start you've included Hitzfeld's two Swiss titles and Mourinho's two Portuguese titles, yet ignored Wenger twice winning the domestic Double in England.

That's hardly fair, I mean the Swiss league?

Also, what about runner up positions in the English league, FA Cup semis, etc.?
Eriksson won the square root of £#%&! all in England.
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 01:02 PM
dodger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorg
I don't think that's a fair comparison there, dodger.

For a start you've included Hitzfeld's two Swiss titles and Mourinho's two Portuguese titles, yet ignored Wenger twice winning the domestic Double in England.

That's hardly fair, I mean the Swiss league?

Also, what about runner up positions in the English league, FA Cup semis, etc.?
Eriksson won the square root of £#%&! all in England.
Hang on, I've not included domestic cups 'cos they're worth £#%&! all in europe (and in all but a marketing sense, not much here either). I've taken into account the swiss league wins not being worth much, that's why they're mentioned. If I hadn't, Trappatoni would be well ahead of Wenger.
Runner up positions, ok but let's face it they're worth £#%&! all as well, who the £#%&! cares about conming second. I mentioned the european r/u's to be fairer to Wenger as he has actually won piss all in europe. Something else rarely mentioned when he's hailed as a great.
Yes sven won nothin in one season here. He's won the italian league which Wenger hasn't. Anyway, Sven's rated lower.
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 01:06 PM
Zorg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger
Hang on, I've not included domestic cups 'cos they're worth £#%&! all in europe (and in all but a marketing since not much here either). I've taken into account the swiss league wins not being worth much, that's why they're mentioned.
Runner up positions, ok but let's face it they're worth £#%&! all as well, who the £#%&! cares about conming second. I mentioned the european r/u's to be fairer to Wenger as he has actually won piss all in europe. Something else rarely mentioned when he's hailed as a great.
Yes sven won nothin in one season here. He's won the italian league which Wenger hasn't. Anyway, Sven's rated lower.
I still think winning the domestic Double in your first full season is far more of an achievement than winning two Swiss titles.

Europe's overrated to me anyway, it's great when you win it but it's a cup competition and a league title is much harder to win if you ask me. Benitez has been shit on that score.
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 01:10 PM
dodger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorg
I still think winning the domestic Double in your first full season is far more of an achievement than winning two Swiss titles..
So take away Hitzfelds swiss titles. Does that make his record worse tha wengers? You can add his german cups if you like too .


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorg

Europe's overrated to me anyway, it's great when you win it but it's a cup competition and a league title is much harder to win if you ask me. Benitez has been shit on that score.
Yes the league is the toughest. And Wenger's won three since 1990.
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 01:12 PM
The Watcher
 
Question

Cappello and Benitez only have 1 European Cup. Trappatoni also has one (although tarnished by Heysel).

I'm pretty sure Wenger has the dubious honour of having lost in the final of all three European competitions
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 01:19 PM
dodger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Watcher
Cappello and Benitez only have 1 European Cup. Trappatoni also has one (although tarnished by Heysel).

I'm pretty sure Wenger has the dubious honour of having lost in the final of all three European competitions
Didn't Benitez win it with Valencia? Sorry if not. Ditto Cappello, I thought he had two with meelan.
Trappatoni's was pre-1990 so doesn't count on this list ( he's got stacks of titles pre 1990 too so it's a bit unfair on him, one must have peramaters though)
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 01:22 PM
The Watcher
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger
Didn't Benitez win it with Valencia? Sorry if not. Ditto Cappello, I thought he had two with meelan.
Trappatoni's was pre-1990 so doesn't count on this list ( he's got stacks of titles pre 1990 too so it's a bit unfair on him, one must have peramaters though)
Benitez won the UEFA Cup in 2004 and Cappello managed only one with Milan in 1994. His Milan sides lost finals in 1993 and 1995.
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 01:26 PM
dodger
 
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Watcher
Benitez won the UEFA Cup in 2004 and Cappello managed only one with Milan in 1994. His Milan sides lost finals in 1993 and 1995.
Thank you, amended.
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 01:40 PM
Zorg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger
So take away Hitzfelds swiss titles. Does that make his record worse tha wengers? You can add his german cups if you like tool.
Look, I agree that calling him an 'all-time great' is OTT. The point I'm making is you kept some things in and ignored others, making your comparison inconsistent.

In any case, I thought we were talking simply about Wenger being an excellent manager, which he is, not whether he's better than Lippi, Capello or Hitzfeld, which he's clearly not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger
Yes the league is the toughest. And Wenger's won three since 1990.
Which is better than Benitez, who I would imagine has probably spent far more.
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 01:44 PM
dodger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorg



Which is better than Benitez, who I would imagine has probably spent far more.
Ok, he can go above Benitez
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 01:48 PM
dodger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorg
Look, I agree that calling him an 'all-time great' is OTT. The point I'm making is you kept some things in and ignored others, making your comparison inconsistent.
I honestly think I've kept it fair as can be.
The fa cup is very nice and I love the history et al and have had soem great times at cup games. But it's a competition played with weakened teams now, by the big clubs) and you have to win 5 games (sometimes against lower division opposition all the way) to win it. It can't really be taken into account on a list like this.
Like I said, swiss league etc has been taken into account.
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 02:07 PM
Zorg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger
Ok, he can go above Benitez
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger
I honestly think I've kept it fair as can be.
The fa cup is very nice and I love the history et al and have had soem great times at cup games. But it's a competition played with weakened teams now, by the big clubs) and you have to win 5 games (sometimes against lower division opposition all the way) to win it. It can't really be taken into account on a list like this.
Like I said, swiss league etc has been taken into account.
Fair enough.
 
Unread 12-09-2008, 03:53 PM
Charlestown Rouge
 
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Crap comparisons - Del Bosque/Mourinho etc if Wenger had access to half the funds these two enjoyed he'd be further up this spurious table.
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