Mourinho in by Boxing Day

I think people need to face facts that LvG will be in charge boxing day, will fail to win and will be in charge 2 days later.

Originally Posted by utd99

Siders, you are talking about being top in what, October? It means absolutely nothing mate.

Originally Posted by utd99

Ok, hold on; I'm not sure I'm seeing the reality in this. These people are hired because they are famous players and they comment on everyone, not just us. This is a job they do and any commentator/pundit can only survive on their credibility with the viewer so they can't just make shit up. They are hired to say what they see, and they are saying what they see, and what they see is no different then the stuff you read on here. It's only a conspiracy if you are looking for one, and I'm not sure how the club could, or even should, be able to control that.

What are we, advocates of censorship now because we don't like the message?

Censorship. Hahahaha.

When Fergie was manager, what he said was what happened. Everyone fell in line behind him. When they didn't, there was hell to pay and they were usually £#%&!ed off sharpish.

Now, one could argue that he had earned and even commanded that environment. But it was like that from day one. Seems nowadays the manager is given a trial period by these players and former players. And if they don't like what is said or done, they gossip like a bunch of schoolgirls and the shit ends up on tv.

We all laughed and cheered when it was Moyes at the receiving end because many of us wanted him out day one. But it's a bit different, in my opinion, when a talented manager is treated similarly.

You can say all you want that this is just the way it is and everyone has to just deal with it. Fair enough. But I think this is an environment set up to usher the failure of most anyone who does things these players disagree with. And since no manager is going to be their beloved Fergie, this may routinely happen until a few move on. Or until someone shuts them the £#%&! up and says do as you're told.

Originally Posted by utd99

Yeah ok, my posting.

To summarize:

Me: it's clearly not working, and we should act swiftly and decisively to arrest this decline before it gets worse.
You: give him a ten year extension and ignore the football because nothing is his fault and it's irrelevant anyway.

Nevermind dunky, the lad was only yesterday shoving his head deep in the sand claiming anyone who thinks LvG is getting the sack is deluded.

Originally Posted by utd99

Ok, hold on; I'm not sure I'm seeing the reality in this. These people are hired because they are famous players and they comment on everyone, not just us. This is a job they do and any commentator/pundit can only survive on their credibility with the viewer so they can't just make shit up. They are hired to say what they see, and they are saying what they see, and what they see is no different then the stuff you read on here. It's only a conspiracy if you are looking for one, and I'm not sure how the club could, or even should, be able to control that.

What are we, advocates of censorship now because we don't like the message?

Nah, it's reeked of an agenda. Other managers have nowhere near the same heat. Did you actually watch Rio and Owen sit there and say Clevz and Evans would get into our current team and that Van Gaal has wasted every pound of the money he's spent?

Sorry, but even neutrals saw it was weird. In this country, pundits do not actively try to push a manager out of a top club. When the ones that decide, almost in unison, to do that are close friends with the assistant, I have absolutely no idea how you can't see that as divisive.

Crowning moment was Giggs on Saturday. LvG on the brink and he publicly distances himself from him.

Good luck to the next guy.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Nah, it's reeked of an agenda. Other managers have nowhere near the same heat. Did you actually watch Rio and Owen sit there and say Clevz and Evans would get into our current team and that Van Gaal has wasted every pound of the money he's spent?

Sorry, but even neutrals saw it was weird. In this country, pundits do not actively try to push a manager out of a top club. When the ones that decide, almost in unison, to do that are close friends with the assistant, I have absolutely no idea how you can't see that as divisive.

Crowning moment was Giggs on Saturday. LvG on the brink and he publicly distances himself from him.

Good luck to the next guy.

Maybe because of Giggs' true nature revealed as a sister in law £#%&!ger... however... maybe it was a low point for him too? Thought enough is enough and he'd try and actually motivate the players for once.

He might be a brilliant football mind but lately have you been the slightest bit inspired by what he has said? imagine him being your boss and all him talking about all the time is philosophy

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

I agree in part but gigg's should have gone public in support of lvg and/or told his mates to back off. But he didn't, I suggest, because he agreed with them.

But how you can you possibly sit & watch a United game for almost all of this calendar year, 4 or 5 games aside, & say anything other than "my eyes! The goggles... they do nothing.........................!!"

Because it has, by & large, been utter dross.

They'd be seen as pro-United / bias if they said anything else. It's the medium of the television pundit to get a few minutes actual discussion. Only on Monday Night Football do you realistically get anything more than 45 seconds to say anything on your own before you'd be interrupted & likely shouted down by a Scouser or Thierry £#%&!ing Henry. Or worse, Michael Owen.

Van Gaal hasn't struggled because of the meany ex-United players, he's struggled as his decisions don't resonate at United, or possibly English football or even the fact he's needed a lot longer to get back into it after years as an International coach etc? Whatever the answer, he's been hugely underwhelming & his own tactical decisions in game & line-ups have delivered some of the most rancid football I've ever seen at United. The snippets of where it clicks are not built upon, the whole squad seems utterly at odds with the simplest of decisions & those instructions & clarity come from the management.

There's a constant beeping sound in here with all the backing up from the cardies after tomb after tomb of how he's a genius & will get it right, has instilled amazing pressing stats, wrote an epic training drill of 3 vs 2 that the world uses today... everything but what is happening on the pitch & his frankly terrible performance in his own right.

I think Ducker wrote in the Times today that "when we defend, we cannot attack. & when we attack, we cannot defend". Surmises the issues quite well I thought, & skewers this notion that the "defence is sorted" or "the midfield is sorted" & "we only only need a world class forward line now". Nothing is sorted, it's pretty shit as a whole.

Originally Posted by boreez

Censorship. Hahahaha.

When Fergie was manager, what he said was what happened. Everyone fell in line behind him. When they didn't, there was hell to pay and they were usually £#%&!ed off sharpish.

Now, one could argue that he had earned and even commanded that environment. But it was like that from day one. Seems nowadays the manager is given a trial period by these players and former players. And if they don't like what is said or done, they gossip like a bunch of schoolgirls and the shit ends up on tv.

We all laughed and cheered when it was Moyes at the receiving end because many of us wanted him out day one. But it's a bit different, in my opinion, when a talented manager is treated similarly.

You can say all you want that this is just the way it is and everyone has to just deal with it. Fair enough. But I think this is an environment set up to usher the failure of most anyone who does things these players disagree with. And since no manager is going to be their beloved Fergie, this may routinely happen until a few move on. Or until someone shuts them the £#%&! up and says do as you're told.

Spot on.

I remember saying during the debates about dropping Rooney and RvP that Van Gaal really needs to win something first, to give himself some power. Ferguson talked relentlessly about 'control' and the importance of keeping your authority.

Originally Posted by boreez

Censorship. Hahahaha.

When Fergie was manager, what he said was what happened. Everyone fell in line behind him. When they didn't, there was hell to pay and they were usually £#%&!ed off sharpish.

Now, one could argue that he had earned and even commanded that environment. But it was like that from day one. Seems nowadays the manager is given a trial period by these players and former players. And if they don't like what is said or done, they gossip like a bunch of schoolgirls and the shit ends up on tv.

We all laughed and cheered when it was Moyes at the receiving end because many of us wanted him out day one. But it's a bit different, in my opinion, when a talented manager is treated similarly.

You can say all you want that this is just the way it is and everyone has to just deal with it. Fair enough. But I think this is an environment set up to usher the failure of most anyone who does things these players disagree with. And since no manager is going to be their beloved Fergie, this may routinely happen until a few move on. Or until someone shuts them the £#%&! up and says do as you're told.

Even Fergie with all his power couldn't control what pundits said about him or the club. Thing is, the club were largely successful so the criticism was tempered for that reason. Scholes et al are no longer with the club, they can say what they want, and lets be honest, if their general thrust is that we are boring and ineffective, they would be right.

Originally Posted by silv

Maybe because of Giggs' true nature revealed as a sister in law £#%&!ger... however... maybe it was a low point for him too? Thought enough is enough and he'd try and actually motivate the players for once.

He might be a brilliant football mind but lately have you been the slightest bit inspired by what he has said? imagine him being your boss and all him talking about all the time is philosophy

Yeah, I do find him inspiring, as have dozens of top players.

But you have to have the major players in the dressing room onside. Mourinho found that at Madrid. Without it you'll never quite create the vibe you want. Van Gaal has made mistakes and took massive risks with the squad this season, but I expect most of the players are fine with him, especially the younger ones. Those influential few are the key, though.

Originally Posted by utd99

Even Fergie with all his power couldn't control what pundits said about him or the club. Thing is, the club were largely successful so the criticism was tempered for that reason. Scholes et al are no longer with the club, they can say what they want, and lets be honest, if their general thrust is that we are boring and ineffective, they would be right.

Their general thrust is that the manager is the problem. And they say this as people who are long-time friends of the assistant.

I have no idea how this very distinct and unique aspect continues to be ignored in favour of treating them like any other pundits.

Originally Posted by utd99

Yeah ok, my posting.

To summarize:

Me: it's clearly not working, and we should act swiftly and decisively to arrest this decline before it gets worse.
You: give him a ten year extension and ignore the football because nothing is his fault and it's irrelevant anyway.

Yes, your posting. You are demanding the sacking of a man halfway through the time period allowed for the job he is to do, after 4 league defeats whilst 5 points off top spot out of sheer panic. And to do it whilst there is no clear, available appointment to make, given United clearly don't and have never fancied Mourinho. I'm saying let the man do his £#%&!ing job.

Only one person rattled there pal. The fact the hysterical saffers is backing you up should concern you somewhat.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Spot on.

I remember saying during the debates about dropping Rooney and RvP that Van Gaal really needs to win something first, to give himself some power. Ferguson talked relentlessly about 'control' and the importance of keeping your authority.

I think you are failing to distinguish between voices from the changing room and voices on Sky. You can't 'control' people who are employed by a private company and not the club.

Originally Posted by dunk

Yes, your posting. You are demanding the sacking of a man halfway through the time period allowed for the job he is to do, after 4 league defeats whilst 5 points off top spot out of sheer panic. And to do it whilst there is no clear, available appointment to make, given United clearly don't and have never fancied Mourinho. I'm saying let the man do his £#%&!ing job.

Only one person rattled there pal. The fact the hysterical saffers is backing you up should concern you somewhat.

If you hired an investment guy on a three year contract and half way through he has lost half your money, what do you do; defer judgement until the end for the sake of fairness?

If LvG does end up failing at Utd (and it's looking quite likely) it's not because of what some pundits said on TV ffs
It will be to do with his management and coaching of the squad and also his transfer dealings

Originally Posted by utd99

I think you are failing to distinguish between voices from the changing room and voices on Sky. You can't 'control' people who are employed by a private company and not the club.

I haven't tried to. I have suggested that ideally the assistant might have a responsibility to support his manager.

And the club might feel that, too. Giggs' silence was indirect approval of that consensus.

Again, boil it down to just some blokes on TV if you want, but the manager being undermined within the club is massively damaging.

Originally Posted by utd99

I think you are failing to distinguish between voices from the changing room and voices on Sky. You can't 'control' people who are employed by a private company and not the club.



If you hired an investment guy on a three year contract and half way through he has lost half your money, what do you do; defer judgement until the end for the sake of fairness?

Bullshit question about a completely incomparable scenario you're reaching in your panic now.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Their general thrust is that the manager is the problem. And they say this as people who are long-time friends of the assistant.

I have no idea how this very distinct and unique aspect continues to be ignored in favour of treating them like any other pundits.

Ok, so is it the content or the context you have the problem with? Because I'm pretty sure the vast majority of fredsters are not long time friends of the assistant, and we are saying exactly the same things. Are you suggesting Giggs out them up to taking pundit jobs at Sky so he could hatch his dastardly scheme to undermine the manager? Or is it possible that we are merely boring and ineffective and that's what they are saying?

Originally Posted by dunk

Bullshit question about a completely incomparable scenario you're reaching in your panic now.

This guy

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I haven't tried to. I have suggested that ideally the assistant might have a responsibility to support his manager.

And the club might feel that, too. Giggs' silence was indirect approval of that consensus.

Again, boil it down to just some blokes on TV if you want, but the manager being undermined within the club is massively damaging.

Even if you are right about the conspiracy, you can't undermine someone who is doing a good job.

Originally Posted by dunk

Bullshit question about a completely incomparable scenario you're reaching in your panic now.

You can't answer. The longer these conversations go on, the more you have to deviate from reality. It's the fans fault, it's the players fault, it's Sky's fault, pretty much anyone whose name is not Louis Van Gaal.

Originally Posted by utd99

Ok, so is it the content or the context you have the problem with? Because I'm pretty sure the vast majority of fredsters are not long time friends of the assistant, and we are saying exactly the same things. Are you suggesting Giggs out them up to taking pundit jobs at Sky so he could hatch his dastardly scheme to undermine the manager? Or is it possible that we are merely boring and ineffective and that's what they are saying?

I don't know how many more ways to say it, tbh. It's not about criticism or the validity of the criticism. It's about the manager being undermined by the fact that his right-hand man has close friends, business partners and long-time teammates telling everyone the manager is the problem. If you refute notion of the incredible problems that can cause with the manager's authority at the club, then fair enough. We will have to disagree.

Originally Posted by utd99

Even if you are right about the conspiracy, you can't undermine someone who is doing a good job.



You can't answer. The longer these conversations go on, the more you have to deviate from reality. It's the fans fault, it's the players fault, it's Sky's fault, pretty much anyone whose name is not Louis Van Gaal.

Well, considering the league position is currently better than it was when he took over, he's technical ahead, money wise, from where we started, as that is what is measured here, not monies.

He also qualified and participated in the CL, which the club wasn't when he took over, so again ahead.

As I said, bullshit question.

I'm not the one dreaming up utterly bullshit comparisons to justify my position