so this diamond formation then

Glad to see frogson moving to counter the weakness we have playing 4-4-2 with no ball winner.

I expect it to get £#%&!ed up soon enough with Giggs playing at the base and Fletcher the point of the diamond.

Was surprised to see Kagawa on the right today - he did well on the left in the 2nd half against Spurs, but was very poor today.

We looked much more solid with Valencia on the right. He offered an outlet at an important stage, just after half time, and also helped Rafael much more than Kagawa had been.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

not sure rooney hoofing the ball into the air or into the stands effectively as part of a two man screen in front of the back four (with the excellent Carrick) is ideal myself

good job that's not what he did or where he was playing then

Originally Posted by tatty

Glad to see frogson moving to counter the weakness we have playing 4-4-2 with no ball winner.

I expect it to get £#%&!ed up soon enough with Giggs playing at the base and Fletcher the point of the diamond.

doesn't the diamond have four points? yes I'm being a dick. what's your point?

Originally Posted by Terry Silver

Was surprised to see Kagawa on the right today - he did well on the left in the 2nd half against Spurs, but was very poor today.

We looked much more solid with Valencia on the right. He offered an outlet at an important stage, just after half time, and also helped Rafael much more than Kagawa had been.

But this is a problem with Kagawa for me and where he will fit into this diamond formation. Last night he was ineffective and was almost stuck to the right touchline whereas when he played on the left he left evra exposed with little support.

The most effective attacking diamond should be

Fletcher
Carrick - Cleverley
Kagawa

but it frightens me defensively and when we do come up against a side who play with any width, Evra and Rafael will get destroyed.

Originally Posted by believe

But this is a problem with Kagawa for me and where he will fit into this diamond formation. Last night he was ineffective and was almost stuck to the right touchline whereas when he played on the left he left evra exposed with little support.

The most effective attacking diamond should be

Fletcher
Carrick - Cleverley
Kagawa

but it frightens me defensively and when we do come up against a side who play with any width, Evra and Rafael will get destroyed.

swap fletcher and kagawa around then

When it works it looks very fluid but requires good movement by the 3. When Valencia came on we had less ball retention as he elongated the diamond out wide.

The other problem is width as it relies on the full backs to a greater extent so they have to be right fit £#%&!ers.

Originally Posted by believe

But this is a problem with Kagawa for me and where he will fit into this diamond formation. Last night he was ineffective and was almost stuck to the right touchline whereas when he played on the left he left evra exposed with little support.

The most effective attacking diamond should be

Fletcher
Carrick - Cleverley
Kagawa

but it frightens me defensively and when we do come up against a side who play with any width, Evra and Rafael will get destroyed.

newcastle play with width. In fact out of the teams around the top, they play with the most width, perhaps along with spurs, who we played with width last week and lost

I'd like to see Valencia on the right o' that diamond. Tucked inside more, his brain will always tell him to kick run cross so it could take some time to school him into a more central role.

I know someone who would have absolutely excelled in that diamond formation. Went to spurs for 15m.

Good system, but hate the name.

4-4-2 til its changed to The Ninja @#%&!pounder Formation

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop

newcastle play with width. In fact out of the teams around the top, they play with the most width, perhaps along with spurs, who we played with width last week and lost

I'd like to see Valencia on the right o' that diamond. Tucked inside more, his brain will always tell him to kick run cross so it could take some time to school him into a more central role.

I know someone who would have absolutely excelled in that diamond formation. Went to spurs for 15m.

Zokora?

Originally Posted by Kent Brockman

Michael Cox will have a raging semi.

uh uh uh uh uuuuuh

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/b...nited-midfield

are we completely resigned to nani being gone then?

Originally Posted by redhegemony

When it works it looks very fluid but requires good movement by the 3. When Valencia came on we had less ball retention as he elongated the diamond out wide.

The other problem is width as it relies on the full backs to a greater extent so they have to be right fit £#%&!ers.

the opposite happened. before the change newcastle were playing mainly in our half and looking quite threatening. when valencia came on he stopped their full back getting forward to cross and we took control again. very good change by fogie imo.

Originally Posted by believe

are we completely resigned to nani being gone then?

I reckon so. If sold, only a swap deal for Vidal or full assault for Hummels will suffice

As much as I like giggs and scholes, it showed without them in the team yesterday that with this new formation, we have the type of players who can keep the ball on the move. I even reckon anderson would suit this new system really well. Giggs and scholes should be utilised when we need to see out the last 20 minutes of the game and slow things down and just keep hold of the ball. Our 1st 20 minutes of the game was really good to watch.

Originally Posted by borsuk

the opposite happened. before the change newcastle were playing mainly in our half and looking quite threatening. when valencia came on he stopped their full back getting forward to cross and we took control again. very good change by fogie imo.

Correct.

Originally Posted by borsuk

the opposite happened. before the change newcastle were playing mainly in our half and looking quite threatening. when valencia came on he stopped their full back getting forward to cross and we took control again. very good change by fogie imo.

Valencia was brought on to stop the threat down their left which he did very well but what it did was leave a gap as Kagawa had been playing much narrower so there was less interplay.

It was a clear defensive move and i thought it led to much less interplay. Nothing wrong with it as 2-0 up.

Originally Posted by redhegemony

Valencia was brought on to stop the threat down their left which he did very well but what it did was leave a gap as Kagawa had been playing much narrower so there was less interplay.

It was a clear defensive move and i thought it led to much less interplay. Nothing wrong with it as 2-0 up.

Was completely the right thing to do, they were on top for the first ten minutes of the 2nd half and pumping balls into the box from the left- doubling up on Rafael. Valencia came on and pinned that gay looking fullback Froggieson back in his own half aswell as tracking back when needed.

Originally Posted by redhegemony

Valencia was brought on to stop the threat down their left which he did very well but what it did was leave a gap as Kagawa had been playing much narrower so there was less interplay.

It was a clear defensive move and i thought it led to much less interplay. Nothing wrong with it as 2-0 up.

Yep. It's when we do it from the start that it's a problem.

Is Pardew over our 'gamble' of a team yet?

Originally Posted by borsuk

good job that's not what he did or where he was playing then

in fact there were 3 or 4 instances where that was precisely what Rooney did, and it was catching.

United's defensive instructions on Sunday would have been to keep their shape, keep it simple, clear their lines - back to basics, basically.

United chose to plug the gaps by narrowing the play and reigning in their full-backs, who were both excellent on the day.

Rooney is not a midfielder much more than Mark Hughes was. United's entire team, including Rooney, dropped 5yds too deep as the game went on until Ferguson changed it, and Rooney was right on top of his own back four far more often than he [should have] needed to be in that system.

Kagawa's nominal position - off the striker(s) - is not a defensive role. Rooney spent an hour of yesterday's match playing almost exclusively in his own half it seemed to me. Once Valencia came on, and especially once the 3rd goal went in, United were much better.