Football is more than a business

things to consider with the german model are the restrictions on outside investment

the restrictions on player wages

the common knowledge amongst fans there that their FA does not strictly enforce the rules anyway

the fact that various clubs are in financial ruin or on the verge of bankruptcy

the fact that the clubs foundations are not necessarily centred on football, hence the model itself, and hence some of the clubs backed by industry (Wolfsburg etc) effectively circumvent the rules by already having a sugar daddy

the fact that even though it is against the letter and certainly the spirit of the rules Red Bull are currently riding roughshod over the whole thing using a provincial club as a plaything

the fact that Sky are well down the path of getting their teeth into german football

and so on and so forth...


no matter what anyone says they will not be able to avoid the conclusion that the four legs good two legs better phenomenon will always prevail if the ambition is to be successful in the context of the sport, ie rise through the leagues and win trophies.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

things to consider with the german model are the restrictions on outside investment

the restrictions on player wages

the common knowledge amongst fans there that their FA does not strictly enforce the rules anyway

the fact that various clubs are in financial ruin or on the verge of bankruptcy

the fact that the clubs foundations are not necessarily centred on football, hence the model itself, and hence some of the clubs backed by industry (Wolfsburg etc) effectively circumvent the rules by already having a sugar daddy

the fact that even though it is against the letter and certainly the spirit of the rules Red Bull are currently riding roughshod over the whole thing using a provincial club as a plaything

Yep, all relevant issues. None of them are a reason for not having member ownership though. As we've established, no-one thinks it's flawless, just that it's better than what we have in England.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

no matter what anyone says they will not be able to avoid the conclusion that the four legs good two legs better phenomenon will always prevail if the ambition is to be successful in the context of the sport, ie rise through the leagues and win trophies.

So the affordable ticket prices, standing and resulting atmosphere that pisses on anything in other leagues, not to mention the stronger connection between fans and clubs, are irrelevant?

Originally Posted by Zorg

Yep, all relevant issues. None of them are a reason for not having member ownership though. As we've established, no-one thinks it's flawless, just that it's better than what we have in England.

So the affordable ticket prices, standing and resulting atmosphere that pisses on anything in other leagues, not to mention the stronger connection between fans and clubs, are irrelevant?

Who said they're irrelevant? They are the things people outsiders usually point to when eulogising about Bundesliga, whilst the other stuff is ignored. Fans over there are as likely to rip elemants of the structure to pieces in places like this as some of our lot do with the PL model.

One major drawback is that with only 49% to attract investment with there are more compromises elsewhere to be made, for example stadium names and even team names. The English ticket pricing is scandalously high by comparison, but Bayern Munich hardly scrimp on player wages even if they have trimmed them a notch or too of late. Competing at the top level requires huge wages, or it requires profit in the transfer market. Dortmund have had a successful period on the filed lately and used it to raise millions in the market, with more to follow imminently with 3 or 4 more of their best players set to be sold off. This is pretty close to the model forecast for United upon the arrival of the Glazers in 2005 if you're honest about it.