Managing United: why so hard?

Post WW2 only 2 successful managers - why given our resources and status is it seemingly such a tough job?

Atkinson was successful. So was Docherty. You can argue Mourinho as well.

Originally Posted by Gypsum Fantastic

Atkinson was successful. So was Docherty. You can argue Mourinho as well.

Not a league title between them

Originally Posted by Gypsum Fantastic

Atkinson was successful. So was Docherty. You can argue Mourinho as well.

True. Some teams would kill to have won what they did.

It's our mega high standards since Busby and SAF that make our expectations higher. Maybe even entitled. But then, we're the biggest club in Britain and should have big expectations.

Originally Posted by redhegemony

Not a league title between them

Ah you mean only 2 title winning managers. Thought you said only 2 successful. Or are you saying no league = failure?

So is it the weight of expectation?

Bayern burn through managers trying to win in Europe. Same sort of problem.

Originally Posted by redhegemony

So is it the weight of expectation?

Bayern burn through managers trying to win in Europe. Same sort of problem.

Bayern have been and are helped by the fact that they're in a weak league and real opposition only turns up once in a blue moon. They're easily the richest and most players from other German clubs want to play for them. But in Europe is suppose they're hampered by that while they've won 7-0 at Darmstadt on Sunday, Real Madrid etc are a different kettle of fish.

Originally Posted by Gypsum Fantastic

Ah you mean only 2 title winning managers. Thought you said only 2 successful. Or are you saying no league = failure?

Atkinson 2 FA cups in 5 years Doherty 1.

Originally Posted by redhegemony

So is it the weight of expectation?

Bayern burn through managers trying to win in Europe. Same sort of problem.

Weight of expectation and lack of patience. Hire a manager, let him buy players to fit his style of play, give him two years max then turf him out for not being good enough. Bring in new manager with completely different style of play, rinse and repeat.

Yes but it’s all relative and needs context. Liverpool were the best side in the world for a decade or more. Ferguson was at the club for a quarter of a century and Busby the same, so obviously your 2 league winning managers stat is made to look more extreme as two were in situ so long.

Originally Posted by Finport Red

Weight of expectation and lack of patience. Hire a manager, let him buy players to fit his style of play, give him two years max then turf him out for not being good enough. Bring in new manager with completely different style of play, rinse and repeat.

Doherty and Atkinson had 5 years and Sexton 4. Each of the last 4 permanent managers has had 100 games +.

So is the issue the managers or the club?

Too many prima donnas and not enough Maradonas (post Fergie, at least). That and sub-par sauna standards.

Success made us dysfunctional. The club's structure evolved into serving Fergie. You can't replace the guy. We needed someone to come into United the way Clough came in at Leeds. It wouldn't have worked, but that's what should've happened. Van Gaal instead of Moyes and given a remit to rebuild.

The club isn’t just a cash cow for the Glazers

It extends to the players, coaches, all the Media reps who need clicks, ex players who need a few bob, definitely agents and their little toe rag wannabe hangers on……….et al

Whoever the manager is, if their plan excludes even part of those groups then the cancer starts. It’s a cancer that tries to infest supporters minds.

That’s what Fergie took 4-5 seasons to get past before crushing them all.
He started immediately around him with player power.

Now it’s expected in two.

I was as disappointed as the rest when Moyes was appointed but I warned and knew the revolving managers office door was being fitted when he went

worse managers would have picked better midfields.

Originally Posted by The taste of...

Now it’s expected in two.

Tactics?

Originally Posted by armchair

Success made us dysfunctional. The club's structure evolved into serving Fergie. You can't replace the guy. We needed someone to come into United the way Clough came in at Leeds. It wouldn't have worked, but that's what should've happened. Van Gaal instead of Moyes and given a remit to rebuild.

totally agree.

Our utter reliance on ferguson became our ultimate weakness when he left. He and Gill should never have been allowed to leave in the same summer.

There was no succession plan beyond asking Ferguson who he fancied to replace him. Most clubs will struggle to replace their greatest ever managers, but we've been particularly bad at it mainly because the people running the club didn't have a clue about football.

Sustained success in English football has always been particularly difficult compared to every other major league in Europe because of how competitive it is, how many teams there are and the way game is played over here. It's why we have 20 league titles record where countries like spain, germany and italy it's nearer 40.

And lets not forget we'd have another couple of league titles in the bag under Mourinho and Solskjaer if there wasn't a bunch of sportswashing serial cheaters across town.

High expectations based on the previous performance of God's.

Huge media spotlight.

Awful sporting direction that puts profits before sporting achievements and non-football people in footballing positions.

This issue goes back beyond Ferguson look at post Busby. Also look at the players who have failed to deliver.

There is something about United that creates pressure and you either rise to it like Busby and Feguson and Eric and Bruce or you wilt like Moyes and Mcguiness and Birtles and Schniderlin et al.

We need to find a manager who thrives on that pressure ..could still be ETH we'll see.

There’s a ridiculous level of scrutiny and expectation that I don’t think is at all apparent until you’re there. For players and coaches.

We also have two conflicting characteristics:

1. We value long-term aspects: investing in youth, developing a style befitting the club

2. We value short-term success: “we’re man United and we’re expected to win every week”

This kills us in so many aspects.

We cite patience, but we can’t really afford to give it. We like to think we give manager’s time, but ‘man United shouldn’t be finishing 6th’ and that gets them the sack

We’re guilty of it as a club and as fans. On the one hand, we all know we’re a bit shit, but then we can’t believe it when we get dominated by ‘£#%&!ing Brentford’. A ‘£#%&!ing Brentford’ team that beat us 4-0 last season when we were also pretty shit.

Man United, the name, should not be getting dominated by Brentford. But THIS man United team getting dominated by Brentford isn’t a surprise

We do this with signings too. We make statement signings that reflect our perceived status, but if we sign a lower profile player who might improve us then “they’re not the type of player man United should go for”

And it’s not even like it’s wrong. If we do take that step back and try to do things differently. Start from the bottom and build up, then it’s open season on us. We’re laughed at for finishing 6th. Every loss is a meme. Every player an avatar of our decline. Because we really are that big. Our decline and barren years are better than 90% of teams heyday. There’s about 85 football league clubs who’d swap places with our current predicament.

The name and idea of United is more often than not bigger than what actually unfolds on the pitch and in the club… and we chase our tails trying to get there

Oh, and the Glazers