The Cleverley story is a disgrace and shows what scum the english football media is

Originally Posted by Grimson

[i]
He's being beaten up beyond what he deserves. If we had a stronger midfield, he would be a good squad player. As it is, we've relied on him too much, and it's been beyond him.

How have we relied on him too much? He's featured 19 times, that's not exactly being flogged to death.

Originally Posted by rafabio

Hope the OT faithful start booing this @#%&!. Hound him out like richardson style.

Be quiet.

all this may well wake him up to the fact that he hasn't 'arrived' yet, £#%&! off all the pouting ponce shite and knuckle down and develop his game. he has the raw material its just a case of does he want to be a scholes (as in model pro) or TC23 @#%&!o

Originally Posted by TripDownMiseryLane

all this may well wake him up to the fact that he hasn't 'arrived' yet, £#%&! off all the pouting ponce shite and knuckle down and develop his game. he has the raw material its just a case of does he want to be a scholes (as in model pro) or TC23 @#%&!o

This.

Originally Posted by carlosartorial

How have we relied on him too much? He's featured 19 times, that's not exactly being flogged to death.

I think Grimmers might also mean in terms of expectation placed on him. The lack of quality in there means every time he's played over the last few years he's been under huge pressure and we scrutinise him for not being top class. If he was deputising and stepping in for better players, people would go easier on him and he'd probably play with a lot less anxiety.

I think he's a lot better than he's shown this season, but you can see that tension in his play at the moment. He was truly awful in Greece.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I think Grimmers might also mean in terms of expectation placed on him. The lack of quality in there means every time he's played over the last few years he's been under huge pressure and we scrutinise him for not being top class. If he was deputising and stepping in for better players, people would go easier on him and he'd probably play with a lot less anxiety.

I think he's a lot better than he's shown this season, but you can see that tension in his play at the moment. He was truly awful in Greece.

no 'we' don't. some do.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I think Grimmers might also mean in terms of expectation placed on him. The lack of quality in there means every time he's played over the last few years he's been under huge pressure and we scrutinise him for not being top class. If he was deputising and stepping in for better players, people would go easier on him and he'd probably play with a lot less anxiety.

I think he's a lot better than he's shown this season, but you can see that tension in his play at the moment. He was truly awful in Greece.

I disagree. He's a mid-twenties, international footballer in his 3rd season at Man United. Pressure, scrutiny and anxiety is all part of the gig. He needs to step up and he hasn't, that's why he's been criticised - the poor lamb. Does he see himself as merely a deputy or does he have aspirations of making the gig his own? Midfielders of the past have been judged on their performances, why should he be afforded years of patience and excuses? He's not in that sort of environment - you either do it, or face the consequences.

hope he plays saturday and gets a great rect from our fans .... why people are loving the abus the ones burning utd players effergies and calling neville and scholes munich @#%&!s is beyond me ... cleverly may not be great but hes our player and utd fans should back him

Originally Posted by puressence

hope he plays saturday and gets a great rect from our fans .... why people are loving the abus the ones burning utd players effergies and calling neville and scholes munich @#%&!s is beyond me ... cleverly may not be great but hes our player and utd fans should back him

No passengers.

Originally Posted by carlosartorial

I disagree. He's a mid-twenties, international footballer in his 3rd season at Man United. Pressure, scrutiny and anxiety is all part of the gig. He needs to step up and he hasn't, that's why he's been criticised - the poor lamb. Does he see himself as merely a deputy or does he have aspirations of making the gig his own? Midfielders of the past have been judged on their performances, why should he be afforded years of patience and excuses? He's not in that sort of environment - you either do it, or face the consequences.

I do appreciate that, but I think he's had to develop under that pressure, though. Rather than be integrated as a young player into a side that already had top midfielders. I also think its impossible to overstate the importance of being developed into a functioning team. He's just one of a whole raft of players who have struggled to develop at United over the last few years. There's a wider concern, imo.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I do appreciate that, but I think he's had to develop under that pressure, though. Rather than be integrated as a young player into a side that already had top midfielders. I also think its impossible to overstate the importance of being developed into a functioning team. He's just one of a whole raft of players who have struggled to develop at United over the last few years. There's a wider concern, imo.

Oh totally. But the greater concern for me re: Cleverley (and Anderson before him) has been the paucity of alternative options that have presented them with a golden opportunity to kick on and cement their place. He hasn't done it. He shouldn't need 5 years playing alongside a Keane/Robson type in order to feel his way in.

Originally Posted by carlosartorial

Oh totally. But the greater concern for me re: Cleverley (and Anderson before him) has been the paucity of alternative options that have presented them with a golden opportunity to kick on and cement their place. He hasn't done it. He shouldn't need 5 years playing alongside a Keane/Robson type in order to feel his way in.

Yeah I agree, but that can also become a burden if he's not ready, especially for the negative criticism that comes his way when he suffers a dip in form. The Tombola doesn't help either, stripping players of rhythm and confidence, which has affected others too.

I also think there's an issue of him not being suited to our style of play over the last couple of years. Bizarre for Fergie to assemble a team of players like Anderson, Cleverley, Kagawa, Nani, van Persie and then to not place a huge emphasis on a more technical style of play.

It's been a mess.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Yeah I agree, but that can also become a burden if he's not ready, especially for the negative criticism that comes his way when he suffers a dip in form. The Tombola doesn't help either, stripping players of rhythm and confidence, which has affected others too.

I also think there's an issue of him not being suited to our style of play over the last couple of years. Bizarre for Fergie to assemble a team of players like Anderson, Cleverley, Kagawa, Nani, van Persie and then to not place a huge emphasis on a more technical style of play.

It's been a mess.

Yep. That, in a nutshell.

Originally Posted by Crumps

If you are playing a formation and system that is detrimental to the players in it £#%&!ing chose another one.

next you ll be complaining about smalling at right back.

Originally Posted by Crumps

Technically sound player being played and ask to perform jobs unfamiliar to him.

Technically sound players who are unfamiliar with passing forward. More of 'em, please, Moysie.

I'm sure Powell could do Cleverley's job better than him, and he's 5 years younger. Cleverley is still a good squad player though.

Originally Posted by Aman27deep

I'm sure Powell could do Cleverley's job better than him, and he's 5 years younger. Cleverley is still a good squad player though.

Christ Forgot about Powell ?!

Originally Posted by DakotaFredsBigShoe

Christ Forgot about Powell ?!

Even though the latter played him in Jesus of Nazareth, too

Roberto Martinez wades in. Not sure if he's talking about the same Tom however....

‘I don’t understand it. Tom is part of this new generation of outstanding English talent. There are only a few players who look as if they could have been brought up in Holland or Spain or France because of their understanding of the game, their tactical awareness and their technical quality. Tom has got that'.

Originally Posted by Pop

Roberto Martinez wades in. Not sure if he's talking about the same Tom however....

‘I don’t understand it. Tom is part of this new generation of outstanding English talent. There are only a few players who look as if they could have been brought up in Holland or Spain or France because of their understanding of the game, their tactical awareness and their technical quality. Tom has got that'.

Ironically I think TC23 would do exceptionally well at Everton, perfect club for him...