Vermin 4 Swansea 3

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

however, it is no coincidence that results fell away in January after Welbeck had had to run the front-line almost on his own in the lead up to xmas and over the festive period with little respite. He did it pretty successfully but both Rooney and RvP suffered after aborted returns and set-backs.

that arsenal game came after a run of good results and performances that began with januzaj shining at sunderland. it was played on november 10th. leverkusen away was a fortnight later. the 6 wins on the trot came after RvP's aborted comeback and ended with Rooney set for a spell out after playing through his abductor injury.

the real problems have been in the back line obviously, but the goalscorers - and we have top class players in attack - being regularly unavailable over the last 2 months has increased the pressure on that constantly changing back line, simple as that. that United haven't addressed the back line, especially cover for both full-backs, is lamentable. but they haven't, and that's played a major part in hampering Moyes' first season so far. even at palace he had to settle for using smalling to try and keep palace's defence as honest as possible whilst he gave mata some of the freedom he needs.

the problems in defence have been problems in midfield. moyes is clueless. if you think using smalling as a wing back is some kind of genius ploy to set mata free, you are smoking some good shit.

Originally Posted by jem

the problems in defence have been problems in midfield. moyes is clueless. if you think using smalling as a wing back is some kind of genius ploy to set mata free, you are smoking some good shit.

if you think that's what i said you must be mental. even so, i'm still surprised you think that's what i said.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

if you think that's what i said you must be mental. even so, i'm still surprised you think that's what i said.

I think that's what you said.

your failure to communicate should not be laid at my door, buddy.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

however, it is no coincidence that results fell away in January after Welbeck had had to run the front-line almost on his own in the lead up to xmas and over the festive period with little respite. He did it pretty successfully but both Rooney and RvP suffered after aborted returns and set-backs.

that arsenal game came after a run of good results and performances that began with januzaj shining at sunderland. it was played on november 10th. leverkusen away was a fortnight later. the 6 wins on the trot came after RvP's aborted comeback and ended with Rooney set for a spell out after playing through his abductor injury.

the real problems have been in the back line obviously, but the goalscorers - and we have top class players in attack - being regularly unavailable over the last 2 months has increased the pressure on that constantly changing back line, simple as that. that United haven't addressed the back line, especially cover for both full-backs, is lamentable. but they haven't, and that's played a major part in hampering Moyes' first season so far. even at palace he had to settle for using smalling to try and keep palace's defence as honest as possible whilst he gave mata some of the freedom he needs.

It could be a coincidence, though, because results have been falling away all season. They fell away after we won the first few games; they fell away in November; they then fell away again around the turn of the year. We've always been close to a poor run.

Ultimately because we haven't played well all season. That good run of results and performances you mention included. Sociedad away just before Arsenal was a dire game. At Sunderland Januzaj bailed us out after a horrific showing. Southampton and Stoke at home? Really?

Tbh, I think there's an argument for saying our problems have been everywhere. I'm still not convinced about the significant link to the forwards being out either. For one thing, Rooney has barely been missing, and van Persie's presence may increase our goal threat but I don't think we've played any better with him in the side. He's just more likely to help with the crack papering.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

It could be a coincidence, though, because results have been falling away all season. They fell away after we won the first few games; they fell away in November; they then fell away again around the turn of the year. We've always been close to a poor run.

Ultimately because we haven't played well all season. That good run of results and performances you mention included. Sociedad away just before Arsenal was a dire game. At Sunderland Januzaj bailed us out after a horrific showing. Southampton and Stoke at home? Really?

Tbh, I think there's an argument for saying our problems have been everywhere. I'm still not convinced about the significant link to the forwards being out either. For one thing, Rooney has barely been missing, and van Persie's presence may increase our goal threat but I don't think we've played any better with him in the side. He's just more likely to help with the crack papering.

tbph you could easily put that januzaj inspiration in any of about 10 United seasons as a key moment, Giggs at home to Southampton springs to mind in 93 for example. it was that good.

of course, I wouldn't expect you to do so.


as far as sociedad away goes, that dull match overall included a decent spell during those 15 minutes or so when Kagawa was moved inside and ran the game. RvP also hit the post a couple of times including from the spot, and added to the Hernandez miss it should have been a fully deserved and comfortable away win. and that btw would make United's qualification even more convincing than it already is.

that run was very promising, including some fine attacking play and some brilliant goals as it did. again, I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge that. and yes, of course the stoke game was a good day at old trafford and the manager's reaction was typical United, showing his passion and his fight. that run also included that stunning first half hour at fulham too. still, doubt you enjoyed that much really. didn't fit the script, after all. in fact that entire period of just 2 losses in 20 games was far better than the critics ever acknowledged during it and is never mentioned now either. all that's mentioned is the everton game and the late goals against. which is interesting, because avoiding the last ditch goals we let in in draws with cardiff and soton and the everton game, would have given us 5 more points and put us bang in the title race given that we won 6 on the trot during the crucial period around xmas - when incidentally both carrick and van persie were missing matches along with the constantly changing defence and fellaini being out...

tbh none of this excuses the position United got themselves into after a sticky start, and that pressure they put themselves under is what bit them on the arse in january. the fulham equaliser was another kick in the teeth, but as Rooney says - just as Evra has previously admitted as well - the players needed to wake the £#%&! up and stop letting themselves and the manager down on the pitch. hopefully that resolve that was on view at palace is going to continue for the rest of the season and see United restore the confidence of the critics.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

tbph you could easily put that januzaj inspiration in any of about 10 United seasons as a key moment, Giggs at home to Southampton springs to mind in 93 for example. it was that good.

of course, I wouldn't expect you to do so.


as far as sociedad away goes, that dull match overall included a decent spell during those 15 minutes or so when Kagawa was moved inside and ran the game. RvP also hit the post a couple of times including from the spot, and added to the Hernandez miss it should have been a fully deserved and comfortable away win. and that btw would make United's qualification even more convincing than it already is.

that run was very promising, including some fine attacking play and some brilliant goals as it did. again, I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge that. and yes, of course the stoke game was a good day at old trafford and the manager's reaction was typical United, showing his passion and his fight. that run also included that stunning first half hour at fulham too. still, doubt you enjoyed that much really. didn't fit the script, after all. in fact that entire period of just 2 losses in 20 games was far better than the critics ever acknowledged during it and is never mentioned now either. all that's mentioned is the everton game and the late goals against. which is interesting, because avoiding the last ditch goals we let in in draws with cardiff and soton and the everton game, would have given us 5 more points and put us bang in the title race given that we won 6 on the trot during the crucial period around xmas - when incidentally both carrick and van persie were missing matches along with the constantly changing defence and fellaini being out...

tbh none of this excuses the position United got themselves into after a sticky start, and that pressure they put themselves under is what bit them on the arse in january. the fulham equaliser was another kick in the teeth, but as Rooney says - just as Evra has previously admitted as well - the players needed to wake the £#%&! up and stop letting themselves and the manager down on the pitch. hopefully that resolve that was on view at palace is going to continue for the rest of the season and see United restore the confidence of the critics.

That is all %@#$&!s proven by the fact our manager has bulging eyes and isn't Maureen. Apparently.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

tbph you could easily put that januzaj inspiration in any of about 10 United seasons as a key moment, Giggs at home to Southampton springs to mind in 93 for example. it was that good.

of course, I wouldn't expect you to do so.


as far as sociedad away goes, that dull match overall included a decent spell during those 15 minutes or so when Kagawa was moved inside and ran the game. RvP also hit the post a couple of times including from the spot, and added to the Hernandez miss it should have been a fully deserved and comfortable away win. and that btw would make United's qualification even more convincing than it already is.

that run was very promising, including some fine attacking play and some brilliant goals as it did. again, I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge that. and yes, of course the stoke game was a good day at old trafford and the manager's reaction was typical United, showing his passion and his fight. that run also included that stunning first half hour at fulham too. still, doubt you enjoyed that much really. didn't fit the script, after all. in fact that entire period of just 2 losses in 20 games was far better than the critics ever acknowledged during it and is never mentioned now either. all that's mentioned is the everton game and the late goals against. which is interesting, because avoiding the last ditch goals we let in in draws with cardiff and soton and the everton game, would have given us 5 more points and put us bang in the title race given that we won 6 on the trot during the crucial period around xmas - when incidentally both carrick and van persie were missing matches along with the constantly changing defence and fellaini being out...

tbh none of this excuses the position United got themselves into after a sticky start, and that pressure they put themselves under is what bit them on the arse in january. the fulham equaliser was another kick in the teeth, but as Rooney says - just as Evra has previously admitted as well - the players needed to wake the £#%&! up and stop letting themselves and the manager down on the pitch. hopefully that resolve that was on view at palace is going to continue for the rest of the season and see United restore the confidence of the critics.

Nah, we've been shite. Which is why we've spent the season in mid-table.

Originally Posted by The taste of...

That is all %@#$&!s proven by the fact our manager has bulging eyes and isn't Maureen. Apparently.

Nah. It's %@#$&!s because it's %@#$&!s. We've played poorly all season, have failed to dominate the vast majority of our matches, have scraped by unconvincingly in the ones we've won, have bombed out of both the cups at home against the worst opposition in the premier league, have made a host of uncharacteristic errors and have generally looked liked lost souls, both uninspired and lacking in any form of desire to win.

That's why we are in 6th position, 11 points off 4th spot with no chance now of getting into the champions league next year and out of both domestic cups. This, by the way, from a team who were champions last year.

I agree though, moyes bulging eyes are irrelevant to the above.

I'm not adverse to pointing out the positives if that's what you and throb are doing. But it's a bit like Fred West's obituary being dominated by a long enthusiastic section describing Fred's love of butterfly photography.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

Nah. It's %@#$&!s because it's %@#$&!s. We've played poorly all season, have failed to dominate the vast majority of our matches, have scraped by unconvincingly in the ones we've won, have bombed out of both the cups at home against the worst opposition in the premier league, have made a host of uncharacteristic errors and have generally looked liked lost souls, both uninspired and lacking in any form of desire to win.

That's why we are in 6th position, 11 points off 4th spot with no chance now of getting into the champions league next year and out of both domestic cups. This, by the way, from a team who were champions last year.

I agree though, moyes bulging eyes are irrelevant to the above.

I'm not adverse to pointing out the positives if that's what you and throb are doing. But it's a bit like Fred West's obituary being dominated by a long enthusiastic section describing Fred's love of butterfly photography.

You can file it all under the midfield chickens having come home to roost. Moates didn't sort it first summer, Freggle sat and watched it materialse for at least 3. Moates gets another season or so for me.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

as far as sociedad away goes, that dull match overall included a decent spell during those 15 minutes or so when

he's at this again

Can take all the positives we want, can make all the excuses we want, simple truth is that this season has seen far too many poor performances. When you look at every game and every result the only good ones are the win against arsenal and the win away to Leverkusen (which with hindsight does not look as good a result as it did at the time.

We can go on about half hour at Fulham, and come backs against Stoke and whatever, but before the games they were all expected to be won.

When you look at results against the top placed teams in the league, lost to City, lost and drew with Chelsea, lost and drew with Spurs, lost to Liverpool, lost to Everton, lost to Newcastle.

For Moyes to give me some more confidence going into next season he has to be winning a majority of the remaining games against the teams mentioned above. Those are good results, beating a team we should be beating is not.

Originally Posted by Marvel7

When you look at results against the top placed teams in the league, lost to City, lost and drew with Chelsea, lost and drew with Spurs, lost to Liverpool, lost to Everton, lost to Newcastle.

Throb thinks we've done well against the top sides.

iirc 6 pts from 27 in the games vs. teams in the top 6.

But let's look at the smaller picture and those wonderful 15 minutes against spurs.

Originally Posted by Lazlo Panaflex

those wonderful 15 minutes against spurs.

15 minutes may be slightly over-generous, actually