So is it mostly just a results problem?

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

it's not a comparison between chelsea and united

the question is whether people would be calling for mourinho's head if he were united manager and was currently w5 lost 2 from the last 7 league games. i think not. ultimately we are where we are, but losing at chelsea hasn't put us there, it was a dodgy start and and a few slip ups as mentioned above that did that

why do you keep bringing up lost 2 in 7? Why not argue the full picture and ask would we be calling for Mourinho's head if he had won only 50% of his first 22 games in charge?

Given Mou's history, I think he would be given more leeway than Moyes (and quite right) but he certainly wouldn't be getting an easy ride.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Probably not. But given that he's won the champions league twice, the Treble in Italy and the premier league a couple of times, that would probably give people some basis for believing that things would turn around.

Moyes, in contrast, has achieved absolutely diddly £#%&!ing squat in his entire career. So there's no basis on which to believe he will turn it around.

Notes has never been fired

chelsea were nearly as dull and negative yesterday as they were at old trafford in august. but they won.

united were positive from the start, had plenty of the ball, used it pretty well in the attacking part. but they lost badly.

personally I'd prefer the former every £#%&!ing day of the week.

Originally Posted by silv

Mourinho has won the lot. Moyes hasn't won a single thing. He hasn't won a game away to United, Chelsea, liverpool or Arsenal in 40 odd attempts isnt it??

Why do people always leave citeh out of this fact - even when they had the arab cash?

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

chelsea were nearly as dull and negative yesterday as they were at old trafford in august. but they won.

united were positive from the start, had plenty of the ball, used it pretty well in the attacking part. but they lost badly.

personally I'd prefer the former every £#%&!ing day of the week.

enjoy the rest of the season then.

ps

Originally Posted by shenwen

why do you keep bringing up lost 2 in 7? Why not argue the full picture and ask would we be calling for Mourinho's head if he had won only 50% of his first 22 games in charge?

because I'm arguing that he's turning it around slowly and the last run of 6 (now 7) league matches illustrates my argument

overall United's win ratio this season is shit, obviously. that serves my premise quite well as well i suppose

Originally Posted by believe

enjoy the rest of the season then.

ps

i will pal, don't worry about that

roll on wednesday night for starters

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

because I'm arguing that he's turning it around slowly and the last run of 6 (now 7) league matches illustrates my argument

overall United's win ratio this season is shit, obviously. that serves my premise quite well as well i suppose

It doesn't though. It points to us scraping a few results against teams that are struggling badly. Norwich, Villa, Swansea (who managed to knock us out of the FA Cup despite not winning in 7 or something in the league), Hull etc..

We have beaten 1 of the top 8 this season and lost the rest, and funnily enough all these spells of revival or slowly turning it around abruptly end whenever we face anyone in the top half of the table

Originally Posted by The taste of...

Why do people always leave citeh out of this fact - even when they had the arab cash?

yep, and not just that...

united have now won 2 of their last 16 games at chelsea (including 9 man chelsea last season), and 1 of the last 7 at anfield (against 10 men when most said we were 2nd best)...

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

yep, and not just that...

united have now won 2 of their last 16 games at chelsea (including 9 man chelsea last season), and 1 of the last 7 at anfield (against 10 men when most said we were 2nd best)...

So we've actually been shit for ages then..?

Originally Posted by dunk

It doesn't though. It points to us scraping a few results against teams that are struggling badly. Norwich, Villa, Swansea (who managed to knock us out of the FA Cup despite not winning in 7 or something in the league), Hull etc..

We have beaten 1 of the top 8 this season and lost the rest, and funnily enough all these spells of revival or slowly turning it around abruptly end whenever we face anyone in the top half of the table

if you look a bit closer there was a run of 20 matches with just 2 defeats that was broken on new year's day

the defeats were back-to-back and 1 of them we played well

the critics gave no credit at all for that run but were all over the 2 defeats. they were then all over the spurs game.

as an aside - not as an excuse - that spurs game was a massive stitch up, and yesterday the referee was blatantly against us as well - they handball it no fk, then we do exactly the same and it's a fk, they stand on the back of a boot no fk we do and it's a fk straight away, welbeck tackled from behind in the box and no pen etc... there's no doubt that the abu post-fergie shitfest is being helped along by moyes' inability to get the team playing a cohesive brand of football from one game to the next, but it's still an abu post-fergie shitfest all the same - fed in no small part by mnedia-needy critics amongst United's own support btw

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

yep, and not just that...

united have now won 2 of their last 16 games at chelsea (including 9 man chelsea last season), and 1 of the last 7 at anfield (against 10 men when most said we were 2nd best)...

Yeh it was shit and that's why it would have been nice to have a manager come in with new positive modern ideas when Ferguson left, instead of the turgid (albeit successful in the grander scheme) shite of the last few years.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

People appear to be suggesting that United's possession, their tactical imagination and their spirit at Chelsea was meaningless and that defeat was inevitable because Chelsea were waiting for them...

Well excuse me, but United were actually very good in their general play, didn't defend too badly either in general play, gave away very few if any clear chances and basically beat themselves with 2 £#%&!-ups from set pieces

If Mourinho was at United and played like Chelsea did yesterday would the same voices be heard slagging off his style as are heard against Moyes? Seemed to me that what Mourinho did yesterday was virtually from the Ferguson blueprint of how to keep your supporters happy - make sure you don't lose at home and try and nick a win. Their midfield was supposedly going to tear us apart but in reality we handled them very well.

If Mourinho had won 5 out of 6 league games, or even now 5 out of 7, would people be calling for his head?

Just putting it out there, fully expecting at least one person to say they don't care if we lose the next 5 games as long as we play like Arsenal over the previous 8 years etc etc

It's a new dawn, it's a new day and I'm looking forward to the semi-final and to seeing Ole next weekend back at OT

Mourinho sets out his gameplan depending on which team he's playing against. Next week when West ham come to stamford bridge you can bet your life that Chelsea will dominate in all aspects of the game and West Ham will have very little of the ball.

He obviously worked out that the best way to play this United side was to let us have the ball up until a certain area and then hit us on the break using the pace of Hazard and Willian as we are so obviously vulnerable to quick players and those which can be direct and dribble.

Mourinho was and always has been a bottom line manager. Win at any cost, use any tactics to get the job done. He's a winner, plain and simple. He's one of the most adaptable coaches i've ever seen in terms of adjusting the play style to suit whoever he's playing against.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

as an aside - not as an excuse - that spurs game was a massive stitch up, and yesterday the referee was blatantly against us as well - they handball it no fk, then we do exactly the same and it's a fk, they stand on the back of a boot no fk we do and it's a fk straight away, welbeck tackled from behind in the box and no pen etc... there's no doubt that the abu post-fergie shitfest is being helped along by moyes' inability to get the team playing a cohesive brand of football from one game to the next, but it's still an abu post-fergie shitfest all the same - fed in no small part by mnedia-needy critics amongst United's own support btw

I wouldn't disagree with any of that, but it shouldn't be affecting results to the extent it is. Just about everybody expected us to lose yesterday, and most expected us to lose against Spurs, despite all their new players and new, completely inexperienced manager. There is a reason for that.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

So is it mostly just a results problem?

Yep

As it was when ferie was in charge

Originally Posted by The taste of...

The shit@#%&!ery of fregal will not respond to Motes. They know he did not buy them so won't respond the same. Out they will go.

He needs his own shit@#%&!ery that will believe in him due to his trust in them. The fans will do the rest for them.

Exactly. Moyes needs his own shit @#%&!s to get us firmly ensconced in the upper midtable where we belong.

Originally Posted by dunk

Think that is a massive overstatement as well tbh.

I imagine Jose would have got that too, maybe more than 1 of the squad playing well ....

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

if you look a bit closer there was a run of 20 matches with just 2 defeats that was broken on new year's day

the defeats were back-to-back and 1 of them we played well

the critics gave no credit at all for that run but were all over the 2 defeats. they were then all over the spurs game.

as an aside - not as an excuse - that spurs game was a massive stitch up, and yesterday the referee was blatantly against us as well - they handball it no fk, then we do exactly the same and it's a fk, they stand on the back of a boot no fk we do and it's a fk straight away, welbeck tackled from behind in the box and no pen etc... there's no doubt that the abu post-fergie shitfest is being helped along by moyes' inability to get the team playing a cohesive brand of football from one game to the next, but it's still an abu post-fergie shitfest all the same - fed in no small part by mnedia-needy critics amongst United's own support btw

Looking forward to your par league pal.

Originally Posted by dunk

So we've actually been shit for ages then..?

Originally Posted by Admiral

Yeh it was shit and that's why it would have been nice to have a manager come in with new positive modern ideas when Ferguson left, instead of the turgid (albeit successful in the grander scheme) shite of the last few years.

we haven't been shit for ages at all, we just used to get a result in similar circumstances to most of the matches we've £#%&!ed up this season in most other seasons or made up for it with huge performances in other games if we didn't

no question that a clean break and a new style would have been more appealing of course, but at the same time no-one could rationally call trying to maintain the status quo absolutely the wrong call either

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

if you look a bit closer there was a run of 20 matches with just 2 defeats that was broken on new year's day

the defeats were back-to-back and 1 of them we played well

the critics gave no credit at all for that run but were all over the 2 defeats. they were then all over the spurs game.

as an aside - not as an excuse - that spurs game was a massive stitch up, and yesterday the referee was blatantly against us as well - they handball it no fk, then we do exactly the same and it's a fk, they stand on the back of a boot no fk we do and it's a fk straight away, welbeck tackled from behind in the box and no pen etc... there's no doubt that the abu post-fergie shitfest is being helped along by moyes' inability to get the team playing a cohesive brand of football from one game to the next, but it's still an abu post-fergie shitfest all the same - fed in no small part by mnedia-needy critics amongst United's own support btw

that run doesn't get credit because 4 wins came against totally shit sides.

We have not won a single match against the current top 9 bar arsenal at home and in most of those we have been convincingly beaten or didn't deserve to win bar spurs (when we were absolutely awful in 1st half).

I never see you mention that. And I can't see that record improving either with city and liverpool at home and everton, newcastle, arsenal, southampton away.

We could end up with a single win in 16 matches against the top 9!