So is it mostly just a results problem?

People appear to be suggesting that United's possession, their tactical imagination and their spirit at Chelsea was meaningless and that defeat was inevitable because Chelsea were waiting for them...

Well excuse me, but United were actually very good in their general play, didn't defend too badly either in general play, gave away very few if any clear chances and basically beat themselves with 2 £#%&!-ups from set pieces

If Mourinho was at United and played like Chelsea did yesterday would the same voices be heard slagging off his style as are heard against Moyes? Seemed to me that what Mourinho did yesterday was virtually from the Ferguson blueprint of how to keep your supporters happy - make sure you don't lose at home and try and nick a win. Their midfield was supposedly going to tear us apart but in reality we handled them very well.

If Mourinho had won 5 out of 6 league games, or even now 5 out of 7, would people be calling for his head?

Just putting it out there, fully expecting at least one person to say they don't care if we lose the next 5 games as long as we play like Arsenal over the previous 8 years etc etc

It's a new dawn, it's a new day and I'm looking forward to the semi-final and to seeing Ole next weekend back at OT

Chelsea played us like we've been playing teams for twenty years. Let us get excited for ten minutes while they soaked it all up and slowly chipped away at whatever confidence we had before the inevitable happened.

If we're taking positives from last night then we really are £#%&!ed.

We played like a midtable side. The defending for the 3 goals was appalling. We only didn't get shown up more because Chelsea managed 3 goals with very little effort and were happy with it.

'general play' as you put it has been shit all season and you know it, we look utter dross at times its been done to death on here so im not gonna go into specifics but cumon to £#%&! youve seen it all for yourself surely?

at the end of the day goals win games and I think peoples frustrations are coming from the fact we are neither winning games or looking very convincing at all im afraid

Originally Posted by Larssonisghod7

'general play' as you put it has been shit all season and you know it, we look utter dross at times its been done to death on here so im not gonna go into specifics but cumon to £#%&! youve seen it all for yourself surely?

at the end of the day goals win games and I think peoples frustrations are coming from the fact we are neither winning games or looking very convincing at all im afraid

sometimes singing at 900mph wins you games too.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

People appear to be suggesting that United's possession, their tactical imagination and their spirit at Chelsea was meaningless and that defeat was inevitable because Chelsea were waiting for them...

Well excuse me, but United were actually very good in their general play, didn't defend too badly either in general play, gave away very few if any clear chances and basically beat themselves with 2 £#%&!-ups from set pieces

If Mourinho was at United and played like Chelsea did yesterday would the same voices be heard slagging off his style as are heard against Moyes? Seemed to me that what Mourinho did yesterday was virtually from the Ferguson blueprint of how to keep your supporters happy - make sure you don't lose at home and try and nick a win. Their midfield was supposedly going to tear us apart but in reality we handled them very well.

If Mourinho had won 5 out of 6 league games, or even now 5 out of 7, would people be calling for his head?

Just putting it out there, fully expecting at least one person to say they don't care if we lose the next 5 games as long as we play like Arsenal over the previous 8 years etc etc

It's a new dawn, it's a new day and I'm looking forward to the semi-final and to seeing Ole next weekend back at OT

Moyes: 7 league losses by January. Out of FA Cup. Behind league leaders by 14 points, Behind 4th place by 7 points

Mourinho : 1 point off league leaders

No, it is not just a results problem, but a general malaise all round. I agree that in some games we do not play too badly in patches, but there seems to be little fight. United used to be fearless but we currently have a squad that scares nobody but ourselves.

Yes results problem. I didn't want him but thought he would at least offer stability solid defensive 3/4 in the league . I never liked his style or his character. He now brings no positives and the same negatives.

Originally Posted by WarwickRoad

No, it is not just a results problem, but a general malaise all round. I agree that in some games we do not play too badly in patches, but there seems to be little fight. United used to be fearless but we currently have a squad that scares nobody but ourselves.

United used to be fearless because of the brilliant players at disposal. Since ronaldo left that fear factor went. you could see how southampton played when they came to OT last season.

unless we buy few world class players that is not going to improve. Moyes or no moyes. Can't see it tbh

Originally Posted by Larssonisghod7

'general play' as you put it has been shit all season and you know it, we look utter dross at times its been done to death on here so im not gonna go into specifics but cumon to £#%&! youve seen it all for yourself surely?

at the end of the day goals win games and I think peoples frustrations are coming from the fact we are neither winning games or looking very convincing at all im afraid

goals do indeed win matches, but more importantly they breed confidence in the side and force the opposition to change their thinking

i've been saying it all season because it's so £#%&!ing obvious. rooney and van persie being out has made it worse, but we have been missing chances from day 1 and it's caught up with us plenty of times (southampton, everton, cardiff, spurs...), so that by now we are barely even expecting to take them.

Originally Posted by janners

Moyes: 7 league losses by January. Out of FA Cup. Behind league leaders by 14 points, Behind 4th place by 7 points

Mourinho : 1 point off league leaders

great stats. i meant if he'd won 5 out of 7 as United manager obviously

The comparison is farcical. We've had poor results, an unimaginative style of play, a general lack of cohesion and certainly a lack of transfer activity.

Chelsea are doing well in all of the above fields.

They played well within themselves yesterday and it felt like they could have scored more if they really wanted to.

The shit@#%&!ery of fregal will not respond to Motes. They know he did not buy them so won't respond the same. Out they will go.

He needs his own shit@#%&!ery that will believe in him due to his trust in them. The fans will do the rest for them.

Originally Posted by janners

United used to be fearless because of the brilliant players at disposal. Since ronaldo left that fear factor went. you could see how southampton played when they came to OT last season.

unless we buy few world class players that is not going to improve. Moyes or no moyes. Can't see it tbh

tactics have evolved, fitness has evolved, organisation has evolved, and yes, teams have got better

it only takes a small percentage drop in our level for the gap to be bridged if they are on blob and we aren't in any given game. it's got little to do with fear, and much more to do with belief in their own set ups. make no mistake, when United do actually flow at teams they still wilt and we've seen it a handful of times this season as well

the difference is that when they break it up and break on us we are being exposed, one because more teams are far more efficient on the break than they used to be, and two because we are far less efficient at holding them up than we used to be. the fact we can't defend set pieces for shit doesn't help, either.

Originally Posted by Lok

The comparison is farcical. We've had poor results, an unimaginative style of play, a general lack of cohesion and certainly a lack of transfer activity.

Chelsea are doing well in all of the above fields.

They played well within themselves yesterday and it felt like they could have scored more if they really wanted to.

it's not a comparison between chelsea and united

the question is whether people would be calling for mourinho's head if he were united manager and was currently w5 lost 2 from the last 7 league games. i think not. ultimately we are where we are, but losing at chelsea hasn't put us there, it was a dodgy start and and a few slip ups as mentioned above that did that

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

it's not a comparison between chelsea and united

the question is whether people would be calling for mourinho's head if he were united manager and was currently w5 lost 2 from the last 7 league games. i think not. ultimately we are where we are, but losing at chelsea hasn't put us there, it was a dodgy start and and a few slip ups as mentioned above that did that

Mourinho has won the lot. Moyes hasn't won a single thing. He hasn't won a game away to United, Chelsea, liverpool or Arsenal in 40 odd attempts isnt it??

No, because Mourinho is a winner and has proven, even at Inter when his first year was underwhelming, that he knows how to turn things round and be successful. Moyes doesn't and hasn't.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

it's not a comparison between chelsea and united

the question is whether people would be calling for mourinho's head if he were united manager and was currently w5 lost 2 from the last 7 league games. i think not.

Probably not. But given that he's won the champions league twice, the Treble in Italy and the premier league a couple of times, that would probably give people some basis for believing that things would turn around.

Moyes, in contrast, has achieved absolutely diddly £#%&!ing squat in his entire career. So there's no basis on which to believe he will turn it around.

Originally Posted by silv

Mourinho has won the lot. Moyes hasn't won a single thing. He hasn't won a game away to United, Chelsea, liverpool or Arsenal in 40 odd attempts isnt it??

48 I think is the specific number.

He's £#%&!ing clueless and he's not done one thing yet to make me think otherwise. Even the choice to demote Kagawa to the bench was £#%&!ing farcical.

"He's got rid of Anderson"
"He's got Rooney playing well"

What a £#%&!ing man.

It isn't but the results are undoubtedly crap. The problems I see are

We're missing our two best strikers, and would have scored more yesterday had they been there.

There's a lack of cutting edge. This was evident yesterday, against Swansea in the cup and against Spurs.

I don't think Moyes has it in him to deliver the Churchilian speech we need in games we're losing at half time. We're getting Gordon Brown.

All three of these have contributed to the defeats. We had more possession against Spurs, Sunderland and Chelsea, yet lost all three. Maybe we need to learn how to use the ball rather than have lots of it.

Originally Posted by believe

48 I think is the specific number.

He's £#%&!ing clueless and he's not done one thing yet to make me think otherwise. Even the choice to demote Kagawa to the bench was £#%&!ing farcical.

"He's got rid of Anderson"
"He's got Rooney playing well"

What a £#%&!ing man.

Think that is a massive overstatement as well tbh.