Mourinho issues June deadline.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

That's not my point at all

It's about not having an idea of why you hired the manager in the first place. When United sack Van Gaal in a couple of weeks, if they surprised everyone and hired Frank de Boer, it would be a huge risk but I'd be relieved because it would suggest they have an idea greater than who the manager is.

Moyes to Van Gaal to Mourinho. Pellegrini to Mourinho to Ancelotti to Benitez to Zidane.

Not a single clue what they are doing.

But, you know, so what?

You can have a plan and it doesn't work.

I like Van Gaal. I like eccentrics. But it's pretty clear that he cannot inspire his players to play at their maximum on a regular basis.

His signings are good imo. He's brought through some great prospects (though £#%&! knows where TFM and Varela have disappeared to). But he can't inspire players in the way Ferguson and Mourinho can.

Possession isn't everything. Just like it wasn't when Ferguson knocked out Barca. Like when Mourinho knocked out a much superior Barca team with Inter. Like when Atletico just knocked out Barca and Bayern.

Picking managers based on some perceived philosophy that doesn't even work, especially in the English game, is a shit idea. Better to pick a manager who knows how to win and how to inspire players to play at their absolute maximum game after game and season after season.

Originally Posted by atticusgrinch

But, you know, so what?

You can have a plan and it doesn't work.

I like Van Gaal. I like eccentrics. But it's pretty clear that he cannot inspire his players to play at their maximum on a regular basis.

His signings are good imo. He's brought through some great prospects (though £#%&! knows where TFM and Varela have disappeared to). But he can't inspire players in the way Ferguson and Mourinho can.

Possession isn't everything. Just like it wasn't when Ferguson knocked out Barca. Like when Mourinho knocked out a much superior Barca team with Inter. Like when Atletico just knocked out Barca and Bayern.

Picking managers based on some perceived philosophy that doesn't even work, especially in the English game, is a shit idea. Better to pick a manager who knows how to win and how to inspire players to play at their absolute maximum game after game and season after season.

Having an idea doesn't rely on any given manager working. If you establish a way of playing, a way of training etc and a profile of the type of player that fits that, it makes it so much easier. Alternatively, you can just go from manager to manager and let them turn things upside down, but clubs who tend to do that (Chelsea, Inter, Real) tend to lack stability.

This isn't a slight on Mourinho, btw. I was up for him replacing Ferguson and thought it would happen. If he comes hopefully it'll work out. But when you hire Van Gaal - especially when a club like ours hires Van Gaal - you do so knowing he will revolutionise everything. Surely it's something you only do if you're committed to that vision, regardless of how well he does.

Again, it's not about Mourinho. More what the decision would say about those running the club.

Gotta feel for Siders here, he's like the girl in the vulture photograph...



They all want a piece pal...

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

Gotta feel for Siders here, he's like the girl in the vulture photograph...



They all want a piece pal...

Will never attack big siders

Originally Posted by saffers

Will never attack big siders

Pleased for Saffers if this happens.

He was one more season of LvG away from the asylum

Originally Posted by Clarkie

Pleased for Saffers if this happens.

He was one more season of LvG away from the asylum

If there's one positive here, it's we might get the old cheerier Saffers back. He's been full of rage this season. Been sad to witness.

When LvG gets canned I think it's going to be a huge weight off him. Pleased for him, tbh.

Originally Posted by Clarkie

Pleased for Saffers if this happens.

He was one more season of LvG away from the asylum

I think another season of Lvg would have sent a lot of people over the edge including myself

Originally Posted by andyroo

Good Christ you're vile.

Pure with spellcheck

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Having an idea doesn't rely on any given manager working. If you establish a way of playing, a way of training etc and a profile of the type of player that fits that, it makes it so much easier. Alternatively, you can just go from manager to manager and let them turn things upside down, but clubs who tend to do that (Chelsea, Inter, Real) tend to lack stability.

This isn't a slight on Mourinho, btw. I was up for him replacing Ferguson and thought it would happen. If he comes hopefully it'll work out. But when you hire Van Gaal - especially when a club like ours hires Van Gaal - you do so knowing he will revolutionise everything. Surely it's something you only do if you're committed to that vision, regardless of how well he does.

wait, really?

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

That won't happen until we get some top players. Not potentially good players like Schneiderlin or Herrera. We need to do what we expected to happen two years ago when the talk was of Hummels, Vidal and Bale. That's what will resume the standards.

Agreed. Sadly, it's another area that Lvg has largely failed in.

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

Agreed. Sadly, it's another area that Lvg has largely failed in.

Have no fear, Ed's been telling journalists to "watch this space"

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Having an idea doesn't rely on any given manager working. If you establish a way of playing, a way of training etc and a profile of the type of player that fits that, it makes it so much easier. Alternatively, you can just go from manager to manager and let them turn things upside down, but clubs who tend to do that (Chelsea, Inter, Real) tend to lack stability.

This isn't a slight on Mourinho, btw. I was up for him replacing Ferguson and thought it would happen. If he comes hopefully it'll work out. But when you hire Van Gaal - especially when a club like ours hires Van Gaal - you do so knowing he will revolutionise everything. Surely it's something you only do if you're committed to that vision, regardless of how well he does.

Again, it's not about Mourinho. More what the decision would say about those running the club.

You cite Chelsea and Madrid as clubs that do this, but don't most clubs do this? People respect Bayern and the way they do business, but is Ancelotti going to carry on Pep's way? Did Pep carry on Heynks?

Barcelona seem to be the model for a 'philosophy' in recent years, but them having a ridiculously talented group of players is a bit part of that.

Most clubs sack their manager and get a new one if the old way doesn't work. It's not a new, uncommon or worrying trend.

And I don't see why all the good things that Lvg has brought in (basically just the kids) can't remain.

Originally Posted by Zorg

wait, really?

Yes. He doesn't have to see it through. But if you let him change virtually everything surely you have to agree with his thinking. That's what happened with Bayern. They shared his vision, it went great for a while and he started a complete revolution at the club. They couldn't stand him as a bloke so happily £#%&!ed him off when they got a chance and started making eyes at Guardiola to carry it on.

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

You cite Chelsea and Madrid as clubs that do this, but don't most clubs do this? People respect Bayern and the way they do business, but is Ancelotti going to carry on Pep's way? Did Pep carry on Heynks?

Barcelona seem to be the model for a 'philosophy' in recent years, but them having a ridiculously talented group of players is a bit part of that.

Most clubs sack their manager and get a new one if the old way doesn't work. It's not a new, uncommon or worrying trend.

And I don't see why all the good things that Lvg has brought in (basically just the kids) can't remain.

You must be ignoring what I'm saying. It's about the club knowing what they want from a manager. In essence, knowing why they hired him. And Bayerns squad looks pretty well suited to Ancelotti to me. It's not suited at all to Mourinho. Because they have an established footballing identity and he doesn't fit it.

Again, when Manchester United sign Louis Van Gaal, they're signing up for such drastic change that they'd better agree with the vision. Otherwise you're entirely depending on him working out, and if not you'll tear it all apart again. That's a stupid way to run a club.

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

He's done some good things. Rashford and Co are the best bit.

I still like him and I've got huge respect and admiration for him.

He still deserves to be sacked though.

His best work has been done by getting senior squad members injured by over-training them. Nuff said really.

Plenty of the players, especially young ones, will have benefited from being coached by him.

Anyway, I want him sacked ASAP so I stop talking about this nearly every day.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Plenty of the players, especially young ones, will have benefited from being coached by him.

Anyway, I want him sacked ASAP so I stop talking about this nearly every day.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Plenty of the players, especially young ones, will have benefited from being coached by him.

Anyway, I want him sacked ASAP so I stop talking about this nearly every day.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Yes. He doesn't have to see it through. But if you let him change virtually everything surely you have to agree with his thinking. That's what happened with Bayern. They shared his vision, it went great for a while and he started a complete revolution at the club. They couldn't stand him as a bloke so happily £#%&!ed him off when they got a chance and started making eyes at Guardiola to carry it on.



You must be ignoring what I'm saying. It's about the club knowing what they want from a manager. In essence, knowing why they hired him. And Bayerns squad looks pretty well suited to Ancelotti to me. It's not suited at all to Mourinho. Because they have an established footballing identity and he doesn't fit it.

Again, when Manchester United sign Louis Van Gaal, they're signing up for such drastic change that they'd better agree with the vision. Otherwise you're entirely depending on him working out, and if not you'll tear it all apart again. That's a stupid way to run a club.

You're deciding that's how it is. I disagree. I don't think LVG has to become ingrained in the fabric of the club. I think it's simpler than that and, frankly, I don't think he's THAT influential. Several clubs have hired him and been successful soon afterwards. I think the impact of the groundwork he's laid is more open to interpretation than his supporters like to admit.

I do get what you mean, Siders. You sign LVG, you commit to a longer term vision rather than a short-term fix. He attempts to change things from top to bottom. I get that. But my point is that if that simply isn't working (and it isn't. Maybe there's more good things happening behind the scenes. Nobody really knows) then we shouldn't be afraid to rip it out and start again. Certainly not over some pseudo-integro idea that it isn't the United way or for fear of looking like Chelsea or Real Madrid.

We might be at the point where we're not only sacking lvg, but also admitting that his way isn't the right direction to go in at all.

It's not ideal. It's a real pisser to commit to an idea and then have to admit it isn't working and start again. Nobody wanted it, but here we are.

And I do think there is a link between immediate success and implementing these longer term visions. We have to stay relevant and competitive in order to attract the standard of players good enough to buy into whatever we have.

A big part of the LVG defence is that he doesn't have the players. Well, if we continue to slide down the league and miss out on the CL then we never will. For me, there has to be a balance between the vision and the present. Right now, our present is shit and that needs addressing with great urgency.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Plenty of the players, especially young ones, will have benefited from being coached by him.

Anyway, I want him sacked ASAP so I stop talking about this nearly every day.

Definitely agree on that

Originally Posted by Clarkie

Pleased for Saffers if this happens.

He was one more season of LvG away from the asylum

He wanted him.

Lock him up