It’s happened again

During David Moyes summer of disaster he made a daft decision late on and bought Fellaini. A player who had never shown the required quality to play for Manchester United.

This Summer, after a summer of promise Jose Mourinho has done it again with a purchase of a player who has never shown the required skill level, attitude and quality in a player from the same club.

At what point is someone at the club going to admit a director of football is needed to oversee club transfers and wherever they fit with the required profile of a United player? Because the money pissed away the last few years could’ve been avoided. We’ve a squad full of shite, with the wrong mentality and attitude and can’t keep making the same mistakes.

Who are second in the league against a team who have spent a billion. Yep we’ve done it again.

Originally Posted by That Boy Ronaldo!

During David Moyes summer of disaster he made a daft decision late on and bought Fellaini. A player who had never shown the required quality to play for Manchester United.

This Summer, after a summer of promise Jose Mourinho has done it again with a purchase of a player who has never shown the required skill level, attitude and quality in a player from the same club.

At what point is someone at the club going to admit a director of football is needed to oversee club transfers and wherever they fit with the required profile of a United player? Because the money pissed away the last few years could’ve been avoided. We’ve a squad full of shite, with the wrong mentality and attitude and can’t keep making the same mistakes.

Ok so you want a director of football who has control over which players the club buys; what happens when the best managers, the men who top your list, refuse to come unless they have autonomy?
What happens when the players brought in by the DoF fail, as inevitably some of them will - fire him? How is that any different from now?
And what makes the opinion of some DoF (who presumably never managed, or failed at it like Les Reed at Southampton) better than the best managers in the world? Because presumably those are the types you’ll be looking to bring in.

Originally Posted by Mr_Ed

Who are second in the league against a team who have spent a billion. Yep we’ve done it again.

As a man who reveres the Steve Coppell, Gordon Hill and Gerry Daly team above all others, I agree with you Mr_Ed.

Originally Posted by utd99

Ok so you want a director of football who has control over which players the club buys; what happens when the best managers, the men who top your list, refuse to come unless they have autonomy?
What happens when the players brought in by the DoF fail, as inevitably some of them will - fire him? How is that any different from now?
And what makes the opinion of some DoF (who presumably never managed, or failed at it like Les Reed at Southampton) better than the best managers in the world? Because presumably those are the types you’ll be looking to bring in.

The only area I think it could be a reasonable point is if Mourinho told the club of the profile of player he wanted and they were unable to find an array of options. If we signed Lukaku because we had no idea who else would fit the profile, that is an internal problem.

I reckon this has been an issue for years. Even Moysie apparently thought our scouting network was shocking ffs.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

The only area I think it could be a reasonable point is if Mourinho told the club of the profile of player he wanted and they were unable to find an array of options. If we signed Lukaku because we had no idea who else would fit the profile, that is an internal problem.

I reckon this has been an issue for years. Even Moysie apparently thought our scouting network was shocking ffs.

Ok, but what are we talking about, scouting or decision making, because presumably Mourinho didn’t need anyone to scout Lukaku for him.

This is another thing we are going to disagree on mate, because this notion of some long standing policy overseen by some long standing DoF (or whatever capacity you wish to call it), whose tenure would span multiple managers, is unworkable revisionism in an attempt to explain past bad decisions and mitigate future ones.

Who would that person be? What would qualify them? Why would their opinion be any better than the person you identify as the best manager available? Why would the best managers accept a job where they wouldn’t have autonomy over building their own team?

Decisions will be made - some will be bad. Those bad decisions could just as easily be made by a DoF than any specific manager, and usually a club in the market for the best manager is doing so because they’re in some sort of trouble; not exactly the best platform to be dictating onerous terms is it?

Didn't chelsea, who have a director of football, want Lukaku?

Personally, I think people into directors of football are nu-football pseuds. Leave it to the manager imo.

Originally Posted by armchair

Didn't chelsea, who have a director of football, want Lukaku?

Personally, I think people into directors of football are nu-football pseuds. Leave it to the manager imo.

Any manager we would want would never agree to simply coach whoever some suit puts in front of him. Only desperate managers would agree to that.

I’m just not sure I understand how shifting the decision making process to someone else necessarily makes it better. What is this overarching profile of player that makes the decision fool proof anyway, and who formulates it, Woody?

woodie is our director of football btw

bale in the summer

Originally Posted by That Boy Ronaldo!

During David Moyes summer of disaster he made a daft decision late on and bought Fellaini. A player who had never shown the required quality to play for Manchester United.

This Summer, after a summer of promise Jose Mourinho has done it again with a purchase of a player who has never shown the required skill level, attitude and quality in a player from the same club.

At what point is someone at the club going to admit a director of football is needed to oversee club transfers and wherever they fit with the required profile of a United player? Because the money pissed away the last few years could’ve been avoided. We’ve a squad full of shite, with the wrong mentality and attitude and can’t keep making the same mistakes.

This is why it isn't wise to post right after a defeat.

What a load of nonsense and waffle.

Lukaku will come back strong, fantastic player.

Woo-hoo!!

Woody, splash the cash, Woody Woody splash the cash...

Originally Posted by saffers

This is why it isn't wise to post right after a defeat.

What a load of nonsense and waffle.

Lukaku will come back strong, fantastic player.

Nah, give him a chance. He’s going to throw together a United player ‘profile’ for us to check out. He may be on to something...

Let me start you off. 1) Good.

Originally Posted by utd99

Ok, but what are we talking about, scouting or decision making, because presumably Mourinho didn’t need anyone to scout Lukaku for him.

This is another thing we are going to disagree on mate, because this notion of some long standing policy overseen by some long standing DoF (or whatever capacity you wish to call it), whose tenure would span multiple managers, is unworkable revisionism in an attempt to explain past bad decisions and mitigate future ones.

Who would that person be? What would qualify them? Why would their opinion be any better than the person you identify as the best manager available? Why would the best managers accept a job where they wouldn’t have autonomy over building their own team?

Decisions will be made - some will be bad. Those bad decisions could just as easily be made by a DoF than any specific manager, and usually a club in the market for the best manager is doing so because they’re in some sort of trouble; not exactly the best platform to be dictating onerous terms is it?

I was generally agreeing with your post tbh Just saying that if there was one aspect of the Lukaku deal that would warrant another pair of eyes it would be in the area of providing the manager with as much info and as many options as possible.

I’ve had the impression in recent years that the managers themselves have had to come up with all or targets. Ideally there’s a sharing of info. Mourinho hasn’t got time to be watching players or building dossiers from all over the world. Who is doing that at United, post Fergies bro?

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I was generally agreeing with your post tbh Just saying that if there was one aspect of the Lukaku deal that would warrant another pair of eyes it would be in the area of providing the manager with as much info and as many options as possible.

I’ve had the impression in recent years that the managers themselves have had to come up with all or targets. Ideally there’s a sharing of info. Mourinho hasn’t got time to be watching players or building dossiers from all over the world. Who is doing that at United, post Fergies bro?

Haven’t you been an outspoken critic of our disjointed planning?

Originally Posted by utd99

Haven’t you been an outspoken critic of our disjointed planning?

Yes. I’m just not holding up Lukaku not being as good as some people thought an example of that. He’s exactly the type of player Mou wanted. In other words agreeing with you on the ‘sometimes you get shit wrong’ line.

I’m just saying if there is an issue it might be lack of alternatives provided to the manager. I doubt Ed pulled out a notepad with fully detailed reports on another dozen 6’4 brute forwards from across the world for Mou to have a look at.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Yes. I’m just not holding up Lukaku not being as good as some people thought an example of that. He’s exactly the type of player Mou wanted. In other words agreeing with you on the ‘sometimes you get shit wrong’ line.

I’m just saying if there is an issue it might be lack of alternatives provided to the manager. I doubt Ed pulled out a notepad with fully detailed reports on another dozen 6’4 brute forwards from across the world for Mou to have a look at.

Are you nuts? These £#%&!ers are ego maniacs of the highest order; they’re not going to take player recommendations from anyone, except possibly their inner circle, and that’s only because they chose them.

There is no long term planning in football, and that’s not just us it’s everyone. It’s the nature of football. We can’t control differing philosophies in top level managers, and how can you plan for who will be available if your current manager fails? All you can do is hire the best man available then trust your judgement by backing him and his judgement in matters of football. If it works, brilliant, if it doesn’t you act again. What else is there?

Originally Posted by sub three hours

As a man who reveres the Steve Coppell, Gordon Hill and Gerry Daly team above all others, I agree with you Mr_Ed.

....feel it bro

TBF alI I ever saw of Lukaku pre Utd was him netting.......and not the ones he never controlled.......

Have we been duped? Will wait for Real or Barca to come in..............

Originally Posted by utd99

Are you nuts? These £#%&!ers are ego maniacs of the highest order; they’re not going to take player recommendations from anyone, except possibly their inner circle, and that’s only because they chose them.

There is no long term planning in football, and that’s not just us it’s everyone. It’s the nature of football. We can’t control differing philosophies in top level managers, and how can you plan for who will be available if your current manager fails? All you can do is hire the best man available then trust your judgement by backing him and his judgement in matters of football. If it works, brilliant, if it doesn’t you act again. What else is there?

Well that’s another debate, but you can certainly have a scouting network and someone wearing a suit who knows a bit about the market. Most of the top clubs abroad at least have that. It’s often such basic stuff, such as knowing areas of the team that will need strengthening.

For example, whatever was going on with Moyes, were the club scouring the world for replacements for Rio and Vida as basic diligence. Or was it left to LvG when showing up after the World Cup to suggest lads from his Dutch squad or guys he’d just played against in Brazil?

The thing is a shambles. And I expect it’s the reason for Mou’s not so discreet leakings of discontent with Ed.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Well that’s another debate, but you can certainly have a scouting network and someone wearing a suit who knows a bit about the market. Most of the top clubs abroad at least have that. It’s often such basic stuff, such as knowing areas of the team that will need strengthening.

For example, whatever was going on with Moyes, were the club scouring the world for replacements for Rio and Vida as basic diligence. Or was it left to LvG when showing up after the World Cup to suggest lads from his Dutch squad or guys he’d just played against in Brazil?

The thing is a shambles. And I expect it’s the reason for Mou’s not so discreet leakings of discontent with Ed.

I have no doubt you’re right that it was a shambles; it’s pretty apparent the club had literally no idea what to do when Fergie retired, but when you mention this network as though it would represent some sort of constant footballing philosophical theme outside of managerial tenures, I’m curious how you think that would work. For example would they have control over signing players? Would they just be recommeding players? Who would they be, and what would qualify them? Would any prospective manager be compelled to accept their proposals or could they theoretically be redundant?

There’s no point in this notion constantly being floated to supplement criticism of our shoddy planning unless you can nail down exactly what it is and exactly what it would mean. I think it’s unworkable. I’m not sure which other clubs use it apart from you citing some that are “abroad”, but who, where and how does it work? I’m all for a robust scouting network, but how could it exist in anything other than an advisory capacity? Would the Guardiola’s, Mourinho’s and Ferguson’s of this world ever accept a situation where they are not in total control over who is recruited into their team? I doubt it, and with their jobs on the line could you blame them?

As for long term planning, surely you expect your hiring of a Mourinho to work. How can you possibly know a) if it will fail, b) when it will fail, c) who will be available to then take over when you are in the market and d) what their personal philosophy on management and recruitment is? So what planning are you talking about?

Originally Posted by Mr_Ed

Who are second in the league against a team who have spent a billion. Yep we’ve done it again.

I don't think what city do really provides any excuse for what we do. we aren't going to win the league and we didn't expect to. it would be nice if we looked organised, motivated and entertaining.

the fact is that we need a couple more players like matic. that's all. not messi. not ronaldo.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I was generally agreeing with your post tbh Just saying that if there was one aspect of the Lukaku deal that would warrant another pair of eyes it would be in the area of providing the manager with as much info and as many options as possible.

I’ve had the impression in recent years that the managers themselves have had to come up with all or targets. Ideally there’s a sharing of info. Mourinho hasn’t got time to be watching players or building dossiers from all over the world. Who is doing that at United, post Fergies bro?

Did we not sign up Juve’s chief scout last summer ?