man utd - zenit

Scholes came out of the game with a suspension

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

Scholes came out of the game with a suspension

He was suspended in mid air for abour 45 seconds.

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

He was suspended in mid air for abour 45 seconds.

hilarious

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

He was suspended in mid air for abour 45 seconds.

Terrible performance. Thought the midfield was almost completely dysfunctional prior to the introducton of Park and O'Shea.

Fletcher played totally on the periphery of the game; a stark contrast to his sharp, highly involved and energetic performance against Portsmouth. It's hardly news, but I don't think this kind of position in a midfield four suits him at all. In the Portsmouth match he was given far greater licence to tuck inside, and also to make diagonal runs into the opposition's penatly box, with Brown providing the width in the midfield by overlapping him on the right. We saw verly little of this tonight, meaning that he barely got on the ball at all during the 90 minutes.

On the other side of the pitch, Nani showed absolutely nothing going forward, if anything I thought he actually hindered our play at times, and was a liability defensively. In fact, the lack of communication and team-work that he and Evra showed down the left flank was shocking at times. When combined with Evra's highly adventurous style of play, this allowed us to be repeatedly ripped apart by Zenit's quick wall passes down their right wing (with their RB Anyukov and Danny in particular linking up to great effect).

If Anderson was any better than Nani, then the difference was only marginal at best. He was fairly industrious, as usual, but his tactical play was incredibly naive at times, repeatedly allowing us to get exposed to counter-attacks beginning through the middle of the pitch. And yet despite this poor level of defensive performance, he offered virtually nothing going forward either, failing to get forward to support Rooney and Tevez effecitvely and demonstrating little threat in the final third of the pitch.

Scholes was probably the best of the bunch in midfield, generally making decent use of the ball, although his obvious lack of athleticism was shown up at times by the speed of Zenit's defence-attack transitions (he wasn't helped by the way the team in was set up).

In fact, after a (surprisingly) promising start - with two excellent performances against Wigan and Villa - you'd have to say that the central midfield combination of Anderson and Scholes has really not functioned at all. If I were Fergie, I would strongly hesitate before trying it again against all but the weakest opposition.

Rooney's first half performance was very poor; in fact, I struggle to think of a worse 45 minutes since he's been at the club. He clearly wasn't helped by the total lack of support from pretty much everyone in the team bar Tevez, but nonetheless you'd at least hope that he'd be able to control the ball reliably when it's played into feet - something he consistently failed to do.

After such a poor first half, you expect improvement from a player like Rooney, and I definitely thought that he obliged. His touch was much crisper, his movement sharper, and his use of the ball more intelligent. We also did a much better job of getting players forward to join the attack, which allowed him to get a lot more involved in the game and take up some more Rooney-esque positions.

As for our defence, given the players on the pitch, I think that was the worst I've seen them play in the past couple of years. Tactically it was a joke, with the four players at times positioned at totally different depths, with large gaps between them (an open invitation for third man runs). Neville in particular looked totally off the pace, getting caught out of position again and again, failing to communicate with the rest of the back four, and crossing the ball poorly whenever he managed to get into a threatening position.

Rio too had probably his worst match in memory. Hopefully just a case of a lack of motivation, but he really looked vulnerable whenever Zenit managed to get him isolated to run at him.

I also think you have to hold your hands up and say that Zenit played very well. They passed the ball about quickly, accurately and with great penetration, and also looked dangerous when they tried to run at us. This style of play was fostered by their excellent off-the-ball movement, with the player in possession nearly always presented with multiple passing options, all the way from the defence right through to the final third.

One reason that they were able to get such high numbers forward in support of the attack was the play of the outstanding Anatoliy Tymoshchuk. I thought Tymoshchuk did an exceptional job of covering the space in front of their defence and breaking up our counter-attacks, whilst also using the ball efficiently, allowing them to swarm forward en masse during their rapid defence-attack transitions - something we failed to do miserably prior to the introduction of Park and O'Shea.

For anyone who doubts the positive difference that a high quality defensive midfielder can make to an attacking team (like Zenit), and I know there are a few people on here who do so, I would suggest that you watch a tape of Tymoshchuk's performance in this match.

On the plus side - Tevez

Oh and Park looked pretty lively too. It was really only after he came on that Rooney and Tevez had someone else to play with. Interesting how he nearly always seems to be on the same wavelength as Rooney, no?

great post, serenity. carrick really does leave a hard hole to fill in our midfield.

Pretty much spot on Serenity.

I don't hate Nani as much as some, but I really do dislike the lad. If a decent offer came in and Utd could replace him I'd snap their hands off. Hasn't convinced me he's a Utd player yet. Not by a long shot.

Neville's all but done at the highest level for me. I think he was picked out of sentiment.

We need someone in who knows what he's doing too. Said before CQ was a top coach and he's left a big void to fill.

We need more than Berbatov too. He'll be a start but our midfield to date has been incredibly flat and as creative as I'd be after 15 cans of beater and a good dose of nod.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

Pretty much spot on Serenity.

I don't hate Nani as much as some, but I really do dislike the lad. If a decent offer came in and Utd could replace him I'd snap their hands off. Hasn't convinced me he's a Utd player yet. Not by a long shot.

Neville's all but done at the highest level for me. I think he was picked out of sentiment.

We need someone in who knows what he's doing too. Said before CQ was a top coach and he's left a big void to fill.

We need more than Berbatov too. He'll be a start but our midfield to date has been incredibly flat and as creative as I'd be after 15 cans of beater and a good dose of nod.

Whalers, I can't understand the train of thought about Nani. Just seems to me like he's got quality but needs more time to get the rest of his game and attitude in order.

I hope that's how it ends up because I do see the talent he's got and will have.

Im sorry but ffs neville finished are you lot mad ..its about his 3rd run out in 18 months , and bar some sloppy crossing was our main outlet in the first half some of you lot are £#%&!ing mad . Give the lad half a dozen games and you will realise how important he is to the team


ps nani like ive always said isnt up to much imho .

O'Shea and Park were excellent, and Park's undersdtanding with Rooney is uncanny and has been seen consistently now for a long time.

But the real change that the substitutions effected was probably exaggerated by the fact Zenit scored again just before they came on.

We can pick holes in the general performance, and in that of the individuals within it. But that second goal flicked a psychological switch, and from being off the pace and bullied United were suddenly at it. It was nice to see Zenit bodies scattered around the pitch over the last half hour. Sadly, we ran out of time.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

Pretty much spot on Serenity.

I don't hate Nani as much as some, but I really do dislike the lad. If a decent offer came in and Utd could replace him I'd snap their hands off. Hasn't convinced me he's a Utd player yet. Not by a long shot.

Neville's all but done at the highest level for me. I think he was picked out of sentiment.

We need someone in who knows what he's doing too. Said before CQ was a top coach and he's left a big void to fill.

We need more than Berbatov too. He'll be a start but our midfield to date has been incredibly flat and as creative as I'd be after 15 cans of beater and a good dose of nod.

but tbf we have our first choice midfield in the treatment room

Originally Posted by razzle

but tbf we have our first choice midfield in the treatment room

Aye and that's had a knock on to our attack too as they are constantly coming deep to pick up the ball rather than taking up goalscoring positions or making the right kind of runs to get in such positions. Doesn't help that certain players struggle to pass £#%&!ing water too.

Ginners, stop making these threads...you're jinxing us.

Tevez' improvement since when he joined is fantastic. Probably just down to fitness. I'm a huge fan of Rooney, but when we sign Berbatov, Rooney is the one I'd drop tbh. No way can we drop Tevez, he's looking so sharp, he's strong, he looks so much quicker, he's clever and generally dangerous. Rooney doesn't look confident and a spell coming off the bench, maybe helping himself to some goals late in games will do him good.

The problem is you never know with Rooney, starting at Liverpool he might hit a run of form and score about 8 in 8 and play immensely.

Originally Posted by MUFC One Love

Tevez' improvement since when he joined is fantastic. Probably just down to fitness. I'm a huge fan of Rooney, but when we sign Berbatov, Rooney is the one I'd drop tbh. No way can we drop Tevez, he's looking so sharp, he's strong, he looks so much quicker, he's clever and generally dangerous. Rooney doesn't look confident and a spell coming off the bench, maybe helping himself to some goals late in games will do him good.

The problem is you never know with Rooney, starting at Liverpool he might hit a run of form and score about 8 in 8 and play immensely.

I agree, the best thing about that is that it will no doubt just make Rooney more determined to come back and play better.

Nani was excellent in the Community shield, looked quick, imaginative and a threat. Last night he was poor, struggled to get on the ball because of how poorly our midfield played, and continually made the wrong decisions when he did get it. Park, through doing only the simple thing at pace , made a real difference.

To be fair for someone who wants to dribble it was not an easy pitch, very unpredictable run and bounce.

As for Rooney the thing that will always stop him making that jump to true world class level is his first touch. Too inconsistent, it is at the root of all his problems, why he gets frustrated, why he snatches at chances. His fitness levels need looking at as well, coming back in the shape he did this summer is unprofessional, he is still on his 90K+ salary during June and July, and coming back carrying excess weight looks very bad.

£#%&!ing hell, we don't half miss one Michael Carrick esq.

Why we don't play Rodrigo in his stead, I just don't know, the boy is a £#%&!ing Carrick clone in waiting, IMO.