Tom "The Brand" Cleverley

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

I reckon Cleverley's got at least three more years if we use Beckham as the template.

He's not fit to use Jonathan Greening as a template, never mind Becks.
When he's played a starring role in Title wins & has bossed huge European nights under the Old Trafford floodlights he can start referencing David Beckham as an example.

Originally Posted by MJ Ramone

He's not fit to use Jonathan Greening as a template, never mind Becks.
When he's played a starring role in Title wins & has bossed huge European nights under the Old Trafford floodlights he can start referencing David Beckham as an example.

Way to completely ignore my point. Beckham hadn't played starring roles in sides before Brand Beckham came along. Didn't he meet and swiftly get engaged to her around 1996. He was having an impact on a good side, but wasnt much more etablished than Cleverley is now. Point was, that you totally ignored, Beckham started with this brand shit and it didnt make a jot of difference on the pitch.

He was 'bossing european ties under the floodlights' while all that was going on. Ofcourse, it did eventually cost him, but let's wait until we see some clear indication that that is happening to Cleverley before we start slating him for doing what most players do.

Originally Posted by Argentina

Detroit are shit as well

However much he looks like a #@&%!, that is the way most of 18-27 year olds dress, especially in the summer. So I doubt that football is affecting him, it's just he's part of a generation of @#%&!s who have zero class, shame, and general understanding of the world around them.

Yep. He's a @#%&!. Most people that age are @#%&!s. Footballers are the same but with millions of pounds. I'm always amazed if they're NOT a @#%&!.

£#%&!ing state of her too. Ugly malnourished old @#%&!. Hope the kid is a #@&%!.

Originally Posted by Argentina

Detroit are shit as well

However much he looks like a #@&%!, that is the way most of 18-27 year olds dress, especially in the summer. So I doubt that football is affecting him, it's just he's part of a generation of @#%&!s who have zero class, shame, and general understanding of the world around them.

stupid young @#%&!s.

Originally Posted by Pop

£#%&!ing state of her too. Ugly malnourished old @#%&!. Hope the kid is a #@&%!.

I hope it likes silicone.

Originally Posted by Pop

£#%&!ing state of her too. Ugly malnourished old @#%&!. Hope the kid is a #@&%!.

She is not £#%&!ing ugly. Most of us would walk over broken glass to sniff her seat (not me obviously, she'd invited me to do that) but the point still stands. She is fit. I know nothing about her having failed to inherit the masochistic gene which is required to subject yourself to that shit show she is on. All I know is she is fit and has a nice bumhole.

Originally Posted by Pop

£#%&!ing state of her too. Ugly malnourished old @#%&!. Hope the kid is a #@&%!.

what a £#%&!ing horror.

the chances of it not being a #@&%! is negligible considering the brains trust that will spawn it

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

Beckham hadn't played starring roles in sides before Brand Beckham came along. Didn't he meet and swiftly get engaged to her around 1996. He was having an impact on a good side, but wasnt much more etablished than Cleverley is now.

Beck's was far more established & far more important to United than Cleverley has or ever will be by the time he was 23.
Cleverley has won nothing for United & has scored 2 first team goals (one of which was a cross)

The point about him having a local girlfriend was connected to Football. He shouldn't be anywhere near the kind of "celeb" parties where this pondlife congregate.

£#%&!ing hell, any chance the "I only care about what happens on the pitch" brigade can stick a £#%&!ing sock in it and piss off to the Michael Cox sub-forum?

Please don't ever compare tom cleverley to david beckham. Ever.

Beckham won the PFA young player of the year award in 96/97 while younger than Cleverley is now.

Cleverley has been singled out by coaches and players for his professionalism and dedication in training. His improvement between 18-22 is testament to that, few on here can have expected him to make any type of impact at the club a few years back.

The major problem is that he is not as good as we want him to be, a good technical player with an excellent short passing, continuity game, but not a goal threat or particularly creative. Athletically he is mediocre, does little defensively. If you stick with a 4-4-2 he is never going to be a proper fit for any of the midfield roles.

Are people seriously trying to deny that Beckham's relationship & celebrity lifestyle didn't eventually have a negative effect on his United career?

Heard he's a good lad, but that was when he was out on loan at Watford. May have changed since.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

Didn't he meet and swiftly get engaged to her around 1996. He was having an impact on a good side, but wasnt much more etablished than Cleverley is now.

No, they got engaged in 1998 by which point he was a huge influence on the first team and already had 34 goals to his name

They had been going out for 2 years before they got married

So to sum up:

Beckham was an integral player with a huge influence on the team. TC isn't

And

He hadn't got a tart up the duff inside 6 months of meeting her before achieving anything of note. TC has

I'd say he's pretty much the polar opposite of Becks

Originally Posted by MJ Ramone

Beck's was far more established & far more important to United than Cleverley has or ever will be by the time he was 23.
Cleverley has won nothing for United & has scored 2 first team goals (one of which was a cross)

The point about him having a local girlfriend was connected to Football. He shouldn't be anywhere near the kind of "celeb" parties where this pondlife congregate.

You're dodging the point again. 23? the age isnt important because Becks made an impact at a younger age. What is far more pertinent to the discussion is the point in his United career that the celebrity element came in. Beckham was about as established as Cleverley is now. Even less so for England. The wider point being that from 1996 to about 2000 the Posh factor (the thing you're now saying DOES affect matters on the pitch) didnt have any adverse effect on Beckham more or less becoming a legend in that time.

Can I ask again, what do you see in Cleverley's game that makes you insist that his @#%&!tish lifestyle affects his game? Frankly, I dont see anything. His issues stem from injuries and a subsequent lack of development and a question mark over whether not he will actually cut it in terms of quality. Not once have I looked at him ON THE PITCH and seen a Trucker cap wearing div (well, apart from his hair)

Originally Posted by John Blazini

Are people seriously trying to deny that Beckham's relationship & celebrity lifestyle didn't eventually have a negative effect on his United career?

No I don't think so, it's unarguable that it did. What I am saying is that before it went to shit, Beckham had made himself a Utd legend

TC has skipped all the best bits

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

What is far more pertinent to the discussion is the point in his United career that the celebrity element came in. Beckham was about as established as Cleverley is now. Even less so for England.

No he wasn't stop making shit up :shakehead:

Beckham had 20 games and 1 goal for England

Cleverley has played just 8 without scoring

Originally Posted by John Blazini

Are people seriously trying to deny that Beckham's relationship & celebrity lifestyle didn't eventually have a negative effect on his United career?

No but Beckham proved himself as a player before he allowed it to happen.
United players will always attract media attention - we've always had the most newsworthy & glamorous Footballers.


Sadly 99% of this generation of players look up to Beckham & think having a 'gossip column' profile is just as important as what happens on the back pages during their career.

Originally Posted by Mao's Favourite Starling

No, they got engaged in 1998 by which point he was a huge influence on the first team and already had 34 goals to his name

They had been going out for 2 years before they got married

So to sum up:

Beckham was an integral player with a huge influence on the team. TC isn't

And

He hadn't got a tart up the duff inside 6 months of meeting her before achieving anything of note. TC has

I'd say he's pretty much the polar opposite of Becks

I stand corrected on the dates etc, I thought it was earlier than that. Fair enough. This is more a side point anyway. The wider point being that none of it affected his game.

So Cleverley has to achieve something in football before he can father a child. Hhmmm, I can't help but feel we're coming back to 'who cares?' territory.