Antonio Valencia (Wing Wizard ?)

Originally Posted by Coracao

Erm....that was Evra?

Valencia headed it back to Fletch.

Unless I am losing it.

Was just thinking the same thing. Valencia did not actually touch the ball once with his left foot all game but he did still have a very good game.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Erm....that was Evra?

Valencia headed it back to Fletch.

Unless I am losing it.

You're not:

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=2yyw6dl&s=6

Originally Posted by Coracao

Erm....that was Evra?

Valencia headed it back to Fletch.

Unless I am losing it.

thought it was valencia crossed it, might be wrong.


edit

yep, evra's cross, valencia's header. used his left head, though.

Originally Posted by borsuk

thought it was valencia crossed it, might be wrong.

You definitely are tbh.

I thought he was brilliant yesterday. He is getting more and more confident with every game tbh.

Easily his best game.

I hope to £#%&! im wrong about him. Viva Antonio

Good all-round performance yesterday. Worked very hard, ran at players, was involved in some lovely link-up play when he did come inside and got himself another goal at the end of it. After all the talk, quite understandably, about his lack of goals at Wigan, he looks a good bet to get into double-figures this year, which would be a pretty decent return.

He seems to be getting better at findings space at the back post. It would appear that we're trying to mould him into a better player and goal threat. Not so much of the running down the wing and banging in crosses without looking.

Originally Posted by borsuk

beautiful left-footed cross for the first goal as well, the one-footed bastard

Next time will be the first time

Thought the boy played well yesterday and credit to him. He was definitely helped by having an overlapping right back and looks more dangerous when he recieves the ball more infield and slightly deeper, which is vaguely where I remember him doing his best work for Wigan, than being stuck high and wide. Food for thought.

Good outing, well done.

He was brilliant but it's just mad that he's never to my recollection even controlled the ball with his left foot. All players favour one foot all the time but he'd rather play a ball with the outside of his right than knock it two yards with his left. Very unusual but I'm not trying to have a go at him, he's doing well.

Originally Posted by History

Ronaldo used to always get the ball and slow the pace down???? That's why we were so predicatable last year.

Carrick to Scholes, Scholes to Ronaldo making the run, Ronaldo gets the ball then proceeds to stop and do 5 stepovers why a defender stands there. Ronaldo the gives it back to john o'shea who gives it to carrick and then the move starts over.

I have just watched my Ronaldo DVD and this did NOT happen. EVER.

Originally Posted by borsuk

on the other hand [a winger] is given far more leeway to £#%&! up

wingers *should* be given more leeway to £#%&! up because its harder to create openings than it is for a midfielder to pass sideways or for a centreback to stick his head on a ball but for some reason at United they are NOT given that leeway

if something goes wrong for a centre half it's a goal and they're crucified.

Thats because statistically it appears that that nature of the game is stacked in favour of the defenders.

That why the goals in most games are counted on the fingers of one hand and some end up 0-0.

Thats why the most expensive/skilful/valuable players are forwards - its the harder job.

We should not expect our wingers to create 10 chances each per game.
We should exepct them to *attempt* to make things happen but we should also expect 19/20 of these attempts to end in them:

- being tackled
- having their cross blocked
- seeing their attempted cross not reach our players
- seeing occasional overhit/underhit crosses
- seeing them lose their balance and end up on their arse

You are lucky if your wingers create 1 or 2 genuine dangerous situations per game. I cant name a winger in this league who can claim better than that.

In the meantime, the actions which some lazily write off as "no end product" or "poor final ball" mean that we have pinned our opponents back on their half where they offer no threat to us and we continue to threaten them.

Its a crazy expectation to expect inch perfect crosses on a plate as if the defenders and goalie were just gonna get out of the way and let it happen.

Originally Posted by zzalsar3

wingers *should* be given more leeway to £#%&! up because its harder to create openings than it is for a midfielder to pass sideways or for a centreback to stick his head on a ball but for some reason at United they are NOT given that leewayThats because statistically it appears that that nature of the game is stacked in favour of the defenders.

That why the goals in most games are counted on the fingers of one hand and some end up 0-0.

Thats why the most expensive/skilful/valuable players are forwards - its the harder job.

We should not expect our wingers to create 10 chances each per game.
We should exepct them to *attempt* to make things happen but we should also expect 19/20 of these attempts to end in them:

- being tackled
- having their cross blocked
- seeing their attempted cross not reach our players
- seeing occasional overhit/underhit crosses
- seeing them lose their balance and end up on their arse

You are lucky if your wingers create 1 or 2 genuine dangerous situations per game. I cant name a winger in this league who can claim better than that.

In the meantime, the actions which some lazily write off as "no end product" or "poor final ball" mean that we have pinned our opponents back on their half where they offer no threat to us and we continue to threaten them.

Its a crazy expectation to expect inch perfect crosses on a plate as if the defenders and goalie were just gonna get out of the way and let it happen.

i agree with all that. but none of that means that all wingers are effective or good enough to play for manchester united. valencia is proving good enough, obertan looks promising, nani has consistently not been good enough.

there are no crazy or unreasonable expectations as far as nani goes. he's simply not good enough, simple as that.

Originally Posted by zzalsar3

wingers *should* be given more leeway to £#%&! up because its harder to create openings than it is for a midfielder to pass sideways or for a centreback to stick his head on a ball but for some reason at United they are NOT given that leewayThats because statistically it appears that that nature of the game is stacked in favour of the defenders.

That why the goals in most games are counted on the fingers of one hand and some end up 0-0.

Thats why the most expensive/skilful/valuable players are forwards - its the harder job.

We should not expect our wingers to create 10 chances each per game.
We should exepct them to *attempt* to make things happen but we should also expect 19/20 of these attempts to end in them:

- being tackled
- having their cross blocked
- seeing their attempted cross not reach our players
- seeing occasional overhit/underhit crosses
- seeing them lose their balance and end up on their arse

You are lucky if your wingers create 1 or 2 genuine dangerous situations per game. I cant name a winger in this league who can claim better than that.

In the meantime, the actions which some lazily write off as "no end product" or "poor final ball" mean that we have pinned our opponents back on their half where they offer no threat to us and we continue to threaten them.

Its a crazy expectation to expect inch perfect crosses on a plate as if the defenders and goalie were just gonna get out of the way and let it happen.

Sir Ryan Giggs Esq.

I thought Valencia was excellent yesterday, far more decisive and forceful in his attacking play. I think he might be starting to fee more at home.

Originally Posted by zzalsar3

wingers *should* be given more leeway to £#%&! up because its harder to create openings

You are lucky if your wingers create 1 or 2 genuine dangerous situations per game.

Even Nani, the poor sap, manages to match my target of creating a couple of opening per game while the rest of the time seeing his attempts snuffed out.

And Giggs suffered dogs abuse in the middle of his career. Now he is one of the few players who are granted the leeway to £#%&! up when he appears on the wing to try to create something. When *his* crosses hit a defender's knees he gets warm applause.

Its what wingers do. They attempt to create dangerous balls with 95%+ being snuffed out and leading to nothing more than a corner or retaking possession again if one of our defenders wins the 50-50 from the clearance.

If we want wingers, we have to expect and accept this.

Originally Posted by zzalsar3

Even Nani, the poor sap, manages to match my target of creating a couple of opening per game while the rest of the time seeing his attempts snuffed out.

And Giggs suffered dogs abuse in the middle of his career. Now he is one of the few players who are granted the leeway to £#%&! up when he appears on the wing to try to create something. When *his* crosses hit a defender's knees he gets warm applause.

Its what wingers do. They attempt to create dangerous balls with 95%+ being snuffed out and leading to nothing more than a corner or retaking possession again if one of our defenders wins the 50-50 from the clearance.

If we want wingers, we have to expect and accept this.

giggs got abuse from #@&%!ends because that's what #@&%!ends do but he was praised and loved right through by the vast majority.

as for the rest you're surely joking. wingers do all sorts of things, trying to reduce the definition of success for a winger to a couple of decent balls in a game is complete %@#$&!s i'm afraid. utter horseshit. i honestly can't believe you're seriously suggesting this.

Originally Posted by zzalsar3

wingers *should* be given more leeway to £#%&! up because its harder to create openings than it is for a midfielder to pass sideways or for a centreback to stick his head on a ball but for some reason at United they are NOT given that leewayThats because statistically it appears that that nature of the game is stacked in favour of the defenders.

That why the goals in most games are counted on the fingers of one hand and some end up 0-0.

Thats why the most expensive/skilful/valuable players are forwards - its the harder job.

We should not expect our wingers to create 10 chances each per game.
We should exepct them to *attempt* to make things happen but we should also expect 19/20 of these attempts to end in them:

- being tackled
- having their cross blocked
- seeing their attempted cross not reach our players
- seeing occasional overhit/underhit crosses
- seeing them lose their balance and end up on their arse

You are lucky if your wingers create 1 or 2 genuine dangerous situations per game. I cant name a winger in this league who can claim better than that.

In the meantime, the actions which some lazily write off as "no end product" or "poor final ball" mean that we have pinned our opponents back on their half where they offer no threat to us and we continue to threaten them.

Its a crazy expectation to expect inch perfect crosses on a plate as if the defenders and goalie were just gonna get out of the way and let it happen.

Who are you? That was a bloody good post.

And the effect of wingers appearing to be nullified is magnified even more against park-the-bus tactics. But again, that goes for any winger - not just the ones currently being berated by United fans.

The effect is also magnified by the type, number and quality of forwards we have. Anyone's crosses look a bit better if you have Hughes, Cole, Yorke, Cantona or Ruud in the middle perhaps with Robson or Scholes bombing in late.

With the best will in the world, Rooney, Owen and Berbalove are not a traditional wingers dream team. Perhaps Giggs understands this more than most, hence him looking for intelligent cutbacks to midfielders instead of attempting to find the centre forward.

Anyway I still maintain that the contributions of our various wingers are contributing to our overall dominance of games and pressure exerted whcih eventually pays off. Even when the final balls arent quite coming off or are usually snuffed out, they are still contributing with clinical technical skills such as being able to bring the ball down under tight control despite being marked closely and get the ball under control high up the pitch so that they can shape to attack, looking for the openings when they are there and keeping the defenders defending ( often double-marked.)

Very happy with Valencia. He's really settling in now, had his best game for us yesterday and he's chipping in with goals.

Can't really ask for more at this stage of his United career. Very, very promising.

Originally Posted by zzalsar3

And the effect of wingers appearing to be nullified is magnified even more against park-the-bus tactics. But again, that goes for any winger - not just the ones currently being berated by United fans.

The effect is also magnified by the type, number and quality of forwards we have. Anyone's crosses look a bit better if you have Hughes, Cole, Yorke, Cantona or Ruud in the middle perhaps with Robson or Scholes bombing in late.

With the best will in the world, Rooney, Owen and Berbalove are not a traditional wingers dream team. Perhaps Giggs understands this more than most, hence his intelligent cutbacks to midfielders instead of attempting to find the centre forward.

i think berbs thrives on wingers, out and out wingers. he likes bossing the box and having wingers who cut inside cluttering up his space makes his game redundant.