More Van Gaal philosophy discussion

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I think using the Dutch team and United in the same sentence is a bit of a stretch from the article. I don't see much negativity about this United side, just a failure to really click. We're not as good as his previous sides, but LvG's approach is not the reason Fellaini and Young aren't doing what Overmars, Rivaldo, Figo and Robben did.

There's patently a drop in quality of player in that final third, which needs to be addressed if we're going to see a great side.

He didn't have to pick Fellaini

Same as he doesn't need to pick Young. But he still does.

& the philosophy, as stipulated has to start with the 'keeper, & he's £#%&!ed that up as well.

The next two signings are massive, we're still badly missing half a spine of the side (CB & 'keeper when De Gea goes) & for many of us Rooney is descending into parody as well.

I still can't fathom how little pace is in the squad after that much has been spent as well.

I want nothing more than an Ajax '95-esque United, I'm no naive enough to think it's actually possible, but it's not disingenuous to expect more from him than he's doing.

Not sure why anyone would question LvG has a coach/manager.

Fair enough, the football for the most part hasn't been great and it can be frustating but, you can't question his ability as a coach/manager when you've managed the clubs he has and won what he has

Wondered what them stats were on SSN. £#%&! off.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I was thinking about how LvG's sides always emphasised great players out wide. That was the basis of the fallout with Rivaldo, who wanted to move from his position on the left to the no10 role. From Overmars/Finidi to Rivaldo/Figo to Robben/Ribery to Young/Mata.

well to me atm his selections seem to be pointing towards him ignoring januzaj, and being open to letting herrera go already. he has some tremendous potential combinations on paper, including Mata and Pereira, but he has apparently preferred to handicap himself with a solution around rooney

hence tbh I'm maybe more interested in his strikers...

for example, at AZ in 2008 - and I just had to check this - he had Dembele, Pelle, Mounir and Ari. None of them household names at the time, but a useful combination of technique, imagination and power.

at Bayern he had Klose, Muller and Olic (did he have Gomez as well?)

at Barcelona he had a half decent selection, and also at Ajax in the past.


he's now at a club where the strikers are absolutely key to much of the success down the years and he appears to be neglecting that quite badly. we will not win anything, and are unlikely to even challenge imo, if he doesn't strengthen. I really want his possession game to succeed, but... yes, he wants United to come to his way of doing things. but he also has to come towards United's way a bit as well, especially in terms of scoring goals - or at least threatening to. he has shown he can mix it up already, but he has to have more than fighting for 2nd balls higher up the pitch as a plan B.

Originally Posted by Semantic Lisp

well to me atm his selections seem to be pointing towards him ignoring januzaj, and being open to letting herrera go already. he has some tremendous potential combinations on paper, including Mata and Pereira, but he has apparently preferred to handicap himself with a solution around rooney

hence tbh I'm maybe more interested in his strikers...

for example, at AZ in 2008 - and I just had to check this - he had Dembele, Pelle, Mounir and Ari. None of them household names at the time, but a useful combination of technique, imagination and power.

at Bayern he had Klose, Muller and Olic (did he have Gomez as well?)

at Barcelona he had a half decent selection, and also at Ajax in the past.


he's now at a club where the strikers are absolutely key to much of the success down the years and he appears to be neglecting that quite badly. we will not win anything, and are unlikely to even challenge imo, if he doesn't strengthen. I really want his possession game to succeed, but... yes, he wants United to come to his way of doing things. but he also has to come towards United's way a bit as well, especially in terms of scoring goals - or at least threatening to. he has shown he can mix it up already, but he has to have more than fighting for 2nd balls higher up the pitch as a plan B.

Don't question the philosophy. He won loads in the 90s ffs.

Originally Posted by Semantic Lisp

well to me atm his selections seem to be pointing towards him ignoring januzaj, and being open to letting herrera go already. he has some tremendous potential combinations on paper, including Mata and Pereira, but he has apparently preferred to handicap himself with a solution around rooney

hence tbh I'm maybe more interested in his strikers...

for example, at AZ in 2008 - and I just had to check this - he had Dembele, Pelle, Mounir and Ari. None of them household names at the time, but a useful combination of technique, imagination and power.

at Bayern he had Klose, Muller and Olic (did he have Gomez as well?)

at Barcelona he had a half decent selection, and also at Ajax in the past.


he's now at a club where the strikers are absolutely key to much of the success down the years and he appears to be neglecting that quite badly. we will not win anything, and are unlikely to even challenge imo, if he doesn't strengthen. I really want his possession game to succeed, but... yes, he wants United to come to his way of doing things. but he also has to come towards United's way a bit as well, especially in terms of scoring goals - or at least threatening to. he has shown he can mix it up already, but he has to have more than fighting for 2nd balls higher up the pitch as a plan B.

That's fair enough. I agree about potential combinations too, but let's see what happens a bit further down. You could argue that with all the issues around the club, and with handing debuts to five players, the line-up for Saturday was probably fair enough to ensure a winning start. Like you, I'd be disappointed if we didn't see experimentation in that final third.

Originally Posted by rustling jimmies

Don't question the philosophy. He won loads in the 90s ffs.

I don't question the philosophy at all fwiw. Everything about it is proven.

I question the current application, and doubt it will be retained long term, thus threatening to make the post-fergie supermarket dash look even more like those blue @#%&!s than it does now.

Originally Posted by rustling jimmies

LVG can ram his "philosophy"

If It was Brenton he would be ridiculed tbh

Every manager in history has a philosophy. The English would just call it their principles of management. Fergie had a philosophy of management every bit as much as van gaal. He just didn't use that phrase.

Far too much is made of it, just because of the phrase used.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

That's fair enough. I agree about potential combinations too, but let's see what happens a bit further down. You could argue that with all the issues around the club, and with handing debuts to five players, the line-up for Saturday was probably fair enough to ensure a winning start. Like you, I'd be disappointed if we didn't see experimentation in that final third.

yes but the point is that we won't. not voluntarily anyway. there's a far bigger likelihood that we will see something of a repeat of last season despite now having plenty of specialist midfielders.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

Every manager in history has a philosophy. The English would just call it their principles of management. Fergie had a philosophy of management every bit as much as van gaal. He just didn't use that phrase.

Far too much is made of it, just because of the phrase used.

far too much is made of it in one sense by LVG himself.

for example, we do not need to be reminded constantly of the holistic need to keep players sweet. when his philosophy is being criticised for the over-emphasis on structure or analytics it isn't necessary to point out that xyz was a little upset because his mum dad's dog died and our philosophy is always with the human blah blah blah

Originally Posted by Semantic Lisp

yes but the point is that we won't. not voluntarily anyway. there's a far bigger likelihood that we will see something of a repeat of last season despite now having plenty of specialist midfielders.

I'm more optimistic we will. LvG is the type to prepare for weeks for just the opener. Pedro would certainly require something different; he's in no way similar to players we have.

I say we have another LVG Out, TONIGHT!!! thread before October.

Only question is, who starts it?



Surely not.

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

Every day at the club Van Gaal Is growing, the only problem is people won't or refuse to give him time, one game in and folk on here are close to "there's no future"

one game in? er..... in his second season. he's had more time than moyesie. the problem is that the self-defeating decisions of moyes and van gaal don't need time to fix, just common sense and a lack of stubborn refusal to acknowledge one's own stupidity. I suppose we should be grateful for a back four.

Originally Posted by Baron

He has, undeniably, become more cautious as he's got older.

like fergie, when he was no longer trying to win stuff, but rather to protect his reputation. don't mind losing 2-0 to barcelona. what chance did we have? that kind of stuff. no point in giving it a real go if it means gambling with dilettantes like nani and berbatov. much better to bus the park.

Originally Posted by rustling jimmies

Winning the league with Ajax you mean? Not the greatest achievement tbf.

This guy £#%&!ing hell

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

Every manager in history has a philosophy. The English would just call it their principles of management. Fergie had a philosophy of management every bit as much as van gaal. He just didn't use that phrase.

Far too much is made of it, just because of the phrase used.

i'm sure it's because he was speaking his non-native language in a press conference that he used the word "philosophy"; i think he meant "system".

it's always the first thing people that criticise him use against him, too. it's bizarre the way people keep sarcastically referring to it.

Originally Posted by bigMikeA

This guy £#%&!ing hell

Originally Posted by rustling jimmies

Winning the league with Ajax you mean? Not the greatest achievement tbf.

Benitez record is probably better and look how much of a joke he is looked at.

People liking at his achievement in the 90s

Jesus christ you're a £#%&!ing moron.

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

i'm sure it's because he was speaking his non-native language in a press conference that he used the word "philosophy"; i think he meant "system".

it's always the first thing people that criticise him use against him, too. it's bizarre the way people keep sarcastically referring to it.

I was under the impression it was just a Dutch expression, like trainer-coach. System doesn't describe it, as that sounds like it's just his preferred play style, when it's really his ideas relating to the whole of management - preparation, player behaviour, motivation, the way to treat players etc. In English it would be something like guiding principles on how to manage.

I'm surprised his book hasn't been translated by now. Unless I missed it.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

I was under the impression it was just a Dutch expression, like trainer-coach. System doesn't describe it, as that sounds like it's just his preferred play style, when it's really his ideas relating to the whole management, preparation, player behaviour, motivation, the way to treat players etc. In English it would be something like guiding principles of how to manage.

alright, ruud, i was only saying. jheeze...

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

i'm sure it's because he was speaking his non-native language in a press conference that he used the word "philosophy"; i think he meant "system".

no.

Originally Posted by Semantic Lisp

no.

obviously.