OFFICIAL: Liverpool v United thread. (Teams + doom)

is ronnie's loss beginning to show now?

All the free kicks we had yesterday were a total waste. No one to play like up with rooney or berbatov. rooney and berbatov don't link up well. And even when they did a few times, the third one would completely shit the play like valencia or giggs.

Giggs strangely chooses the matches of highest importance to put in a "mare". a bit like andy cole

can't wait for the likes of obertan, ljajic, diouf et al. The present lot like nani have had their chance and wasted it.

Originally Posted by rafabio

referee thought there were covering defenders ( like flying pigs properly ).

refereeing was horrendous. video technology can't some soon enough.

If marriner is not demoted to championship then there is something wrong with referee performance analysis.

Terrible decision. Owen was in there and the way he would have come on to the ball, it would have suited Owen to the ground. You just know he would have finished it.

But that @#%&! gave us nothing all afternoon. We were poor but it doesn't help when all the decisions go the other way

Originally Posted by wiganste

Why was Carragher not sent off?

Because he was wearing red. I counted 4 or 5 bookable offences and 2 that could've been straight red. We didn't even get a freekick/penalty for 2 of them

Unbelievably poor refereeing. But I think we're in for a fair bit of it following Fergie's recent comments about them.

Lucas didn't even get booked. At all. he had 13 fouls, or something like that, no yellow card. :shakehead:

Even the scousers I have spoken to at work have admitted the ref was shockingly one sided, but they claim it's about time

another thing.

i dont think the referees performance influenced the way the game went. he has our fair share of freekicks and we also got let off by liverpools poor decision making and lack of quality from their other forwards.

kuyt should have scored 2 and that chance that came from that absolute CRIMINAL loss of the ball by scholes at the beginning should have been 1-0 liverpool.

we have lost our last three games against liverpool and generally just not looked 'up for' what is arguably our biggest game of the season. also out last two games against them have been games that could put their seasons to bed.
can we not win the 'must win' games?

Originally Posted by In 76 now this is true

Im suprised more havent picked up on this. It was a shocking foul over near the touchline, but we still had posession and the ref waved play on, we then lost the ball and they scored.
We would have done better to get the free kick and to use the ball into the box. In that situation, Liverpool would have ensured they got the free kick, we were hapy to play on.

Happened with Carrick on the edge of their box with about 5 minutes to go as well, was fouled, kept the ball and his subsequent pass was cut-out. Ref played on and Liverpool streamed forward.

It's churlish to complain about the ref after such an inept performance from our players, but £#%&!ing hell he was bad.

Originally Posted by marlo

another thing.

i dont think the referees performance influenced the way the game went. he has our fair share of freekicks and we also got let off by liverpools poor decision making and lack of quality from their other forwards.

kuyt should have scored 2 and that chance that came from that absolute CRIMINAL loss of the ball by scholes at the beginning should have been 1-0 liverpool.

we have lost our last three games against liverpool and generally just not looked 'up for' what is arguably our biggest game of the season. also out last two games against them have been games that could put their seasons to bed.
can we not win the 'must win' games?

3 titles in a row suggests not.

Yesterday wasn't a 'must win' for us, really, it was a 'would be nice to win'. For the players anyway. For Liverpool it was beyond a 'must win' and it showed.

The biggest problem we have is what to do with Rooney. I love the guy but Fergie (for whatever reason) isn't getting the best out of him. His partnership with Berbatov (as a two) has never really looked like working. They both drop too deep. It wasn't really a problem when we had Ronaldo as his pace meant he could get in behind defenders when Rooney & Berbatov were sitting deep.

I personally prefer to see Rooney on the left of a front 3. I think he's better coming in from the wing and it would also stretch the oppositions defence and create room for a striker.

The sooner we switch to a system that incorporates that, the better.

Maybe something along the lines of:

VDS

JOS---Rio---Vidic---Evra

Valencia---Whoever---Giggs

Berbatov---Owen---Rooney

Owen isn't my ideal striker but he's probably the best we have to play in that position at the moment. The system would rely on Valencia and Evra putting in a big shift.

Originally Posted by dunk

Because he was wearing red. I counted 4 or 5 bookable offences and 2 that could've been straight red. We didn't even get a freekick/penalty for 2 of them

Unbelievably poor refereeing. But I think we're in for a fair bit of it following Fergie's recent comments about them.

Lucas didn't even get booked. At all. he had 13 fouls, or something like that, no yellow card. :shakehead:

Even the scousers I have spoken to at work have admitted the ref was shockingly one sided, but they claim it's about time

I was £#%&!ing raging about Lucas getting away with time & time again. Mascherano was at it for 90 mins too and although he got a deserved red, it didn't come soon enough.

Originally Posted by wiganste

Terrible decision. Owen was in there and the way he would have come on to the ball, it would have suited Owen to the ground. You just know he would have finished it.

But that @#%&! gave us nothing all afternoon. We were poor but it doesn't help when all the decisions go the other way

yup. very similar to city in the way he had the ball and running towards it. reina is anyway shit at one on ones.

tbh I thought even if he was sent off, nothing would come out of it. we just looked flat. It doesn't help in high tempo matches if we have berbatov, carrick, scholes, o shea, giggs. These are players with quality but who need time and space. Considering nani is the option instead of giggs, you can't fault fergie that much.

The one season in which we have dominated and won matches against top 4 home and away was in 07-08. Just see that team and this team. difference is shocking.

hargreaves, anderson, ronaldo, tevez, brown for carrick, scholes, giggs, berbatov, shea.

Add to that an out of form/disinterest partnership of rio and vidic, no wonder we are so poor. we will be lucky to win anything this season if fletcher and hargreaves don't return soon to full fitness and form. same holds true for rio and vidic.

I think its staggering the amount of transition this team has gone through from 07-08 season to this due to various reasons like transfers, form, suspension or injuries. Just staggering.

I think the biggest blunder in the last few transfer windows have not been ronaldo, tevez, hargreaves or even djemba djemba and kleberson.

I think we missed out big time on torres ( whether he didn't want to come or we didn't want to overpay ).

Not only for individual quality but the fact that he was the only quality striker around who could imo form a superb partnership with rooney. Its no wonder that rooney has looked anywhere near his best 2 times. once with united with saha and ronaldo. Another with england with heskey and gerrard. The fact that the other striker who could have compensated torres miss was benzema and we missed out on him also.

Originally Posted by wiganste

I was £#%&!ing raging about Lucas getting away with time & time again. Mascherano was at it for 90 mins too and although he got a deserved red, it didn't come soon enough.

That was a token gesture at best. In the last 10 minutes of the first half Lucas kicked through the back of Scholes on 3 occasions, we didn't get a single free kick, Berbatov was cut in half by Carragher on the edge of their D, no free kick.

We weren't getting a £#%&!ing thing that could benefit us in any way. That referee had pre-determined it.

Ferguson had mentioned him in an interview with sky the day before the game, questioning his credentials and experience. We got £#%&! all off him. Coincidence? :shakehead:

Originally Posted by dunk

Happened with Carrick on the edge of their box with about 5 minutes to go as well, was fouled, kept the ball and his subsequent pass was cut-out. Ref played on and Liverpool streamed forward.

It's churlish to complain about the ref after such an inept performance from our players, but £#%&!ing hell he was bad.

We were shit but it's more than fair to complain about the ref. Lucas must have made 10 fouls in the game. At least 3 of those were very deliberate fouls to stop play. If the ref had booked him early like he should have, we would have had more freedom in the middle of the pitch because he would know that doing it again would result in a red.

It was the same with Torres. As soon as Evra got booked for being with 1ft of him, Torres knew that he could £#%&! the defenders. As soon as they got close to him he could go down and get an easy free kick. Then, he catches Rio out by doing the opposite.

Then you've got the penalty appeal(s?!?) and what should have been a red card for Carragher.

Don't get me wrong, we lost because we were shit. But the advantage the ref gave to those @#%&!s was more ridiculous.

On a side note, why the £#%&! do we always play on when we've been fouled? I don't think we've ever gone on to score. We should do as most other teams do and take the free kick.

For all of the tugging and wrestling that carragher was doing on Owen, Owen himself was pulling Carragher just as much, when really he should have been putting more effort into breaking free.
Clever foul by Carragher, he knew Owen was outside the box so no pen would be give, he knew the ref was blocked from the foul and he knew the linesman was also blocked.
Liverpool were a lot like Arsenal of the lates 80's early 90's, go 1-0 then commit fouls in areas where you know you will defend the set peice from.
If the man gets away from you, bring him down and defend the free kick.

The key against Liverpool is to not let them get in front, as their game is built on getting a goal lead and defending.

Originally Posted by dunk

That was a token gesture at best. In the last 10 minutes of the first half Lucas kicked through the back of Scholes on 3 occasions, we didn't get a single free kick, Berbatov was cut in half by Carragher on the edge of their D, no free kick.

We weren't getting a £#%&!ing thing that could benefit us in any way. That referee had pre-determined it.

Ferguson had mentioned him in an interview with sky the day before the game, questioning his credentials and experience. We got £#%&! all off him. Coincidence? :shakehead:

You could see Fergie going mental a few times on the touchline. He'll probably get another £#%&!ing from the FA about it but you can't blame him. Why isn't he allowed to say what he thinks of the refs? Marriner was a shambles and if he's one of the top refs in this country, we're well & truly £#%&!ed.

Originally Posted by rafabio

I think the biggest blunder in the last few transfer windows have not been ronaldo, tevez, hargreaves or even djemba djemba and kleberson.

I think we missed out big time on torres ( whether he didn't want to come or we didn't want to overpay ).

Not only for individual quality but the fact that he was the only quality striker around who could imo form a superb partnership with rooney. Its no wonder that rooney has looked anywhere near his best 2 times. once with united with saha and ronaldo. Another with england with heskey and gerrard. The fact that the other striker who could have compensated torres miss was benzema and we missed out on him also.

Yes, but we got Tevez that Summer.

Originally Posted by rafabio

I think the biggest blunder in the last few transfer windows have not been ronaldo, tevez, hargreaves or even djemba djemba and kleberson.

I think we missed out big time on torres ( whether he didn't want to come or we didn't want to overpay ).

Not only for individual quality but the fact that he was the only quality striker around who could imo form a superb partnership with rooney. Its no wonder that rooney has looked anywhere near his best 2 times. once with united with saha and ronaldo. Another with england with heskey and gerrard. The fact that the other striker who could have compensated torres miss was benzema and we missed out on him also.

Torres would have been great for us but he wouldn't have come. The only way he was going to leave Spain was going to be if he could play with Spanish players and for a Spanish manager.

I'd have liked to have seen us go for Arshavin. He looked great at the time and only cost Arsenal £15m. He can play anywhere across the midfield or up front.

The lack of punishment for Liverpool persistant fouling was bizarre to say the least.If the boot was on the other foot, the media, RAWK etc would be having a conspiratorial frenzy.

It would have been a nice win but a performance with %@#$&!s would have been a bit more appeasing too.

£#%&! me, we missed Anderson and Hargo.

Originally Posted by wiganste

You could see Fergie going mental a few times on the touchline. He'll probably get another £#%&!ing from the FA about it but you can't blame him. Why isn't he allowed to say what he thinks of the refs? Marriner was a shambles and if he's one of the top refs in this country, we're well & truly £#%&!ed.

tbh its the same in all sports. There should be a degree of respectability maintained about the people who officiate the game.

I think fergie sometimes gets too personal. he tries out to strike fear in refs. but with the media as it is and just too many other teams who are in with a chance at the title/top 4 it may work the opposite. They are human after all and probably if we were to officiate we did give 50-50s to the team which had shown more respect or you "like"

Originally Posted by dunk

Yes, but we got Tevez that Summer.

yeah that's what I am saying. with the money blown on berbatov, tevez and saha we could have easily got torres. we probably should have. may have cost 5-10m extra but would saved a £#%&!ing load in the long run.

now rooney's best is not coming out and you can't leave him out of the team too.

IMO berbatov just like veron has come to united at the wrong time I feel.