*Official* Valencia v United Match Thread - Teams and Value

Originally Posted by borsuk

i think rafael hasn't been playing, though he's been fit and on the bench, because we've had a two in midfield and he tends to get exposed positionally with his lack of experience. as soon as we went back to a midfield three he was back in and o'shea was on the bench. that makes sense because you need aggressive full backs to give you width with a three. hopefully we'll see that formation more often now we've actually got some fit midfielders and he'll be involved regularly.

he was put in because O'shea has been nothing but shite . Fergie didnt half give him some shit on sunday.

Originally Posted by rogieop

£#%&!ing hell, just seen the first half highlights of spurs vs twente

excellent game, end to end, chance after chance and Van Der Vaart looks immense, even though he's missed a pen. would without a shadow of a doubt add quality to our side.

Got sent off as well

Originally Posted by Part 36 Offer

im hardly positive 100% of the time am i

just dont get the jcl's who seem to revel in the persistent criticism

some people expect united to win every game turning in world class performance after world class performance. that's the reason we support united don't you know

how dare they go trophyless one year! how dare they!

So you're saying we're going to win £#%&! all then?

Originally Posted by Sparky***

So you're saying we're going to win £#%&! all then?

only god knows!

Originally Posted by Part 36 Offer

im hardly positive 100% of the time am i

just dont get the jcl's who seem to revel in the persistent criticism

some people expect united to win every game turning in world class performance after world class performance. that's the reason we support united don't you know

how dare they go trophyless one year! how dare they!

.

not read the thread but Park was woeful, Nani was all over the place, and Rafael was £#%&!ing superb just as he usually is. clearly still has growing/strength/fitness issues which is no doubt why he is held in abeyance somewhat

what a £#%&!ing goal from Hernandez

no value there at all eh

good opportunism from Nani to use Macheda early after the silly £#%&!er had ran the defence over towards his space i thought. then again, Nani had done next to £#%&! all right himself til then either and was maybe expected to move infield across Macheda's run

decent tactics from Ferguson in terms of safety first. pity our midfield, including Carrick, particularly Park and especially Fletcher simply isn't blessed with the spontaneity or imagination to receive and use the ball under pressure when their first option isn't on, but hey ho, we got away with it in the end...

Originally Posted by Tiberian

The negativity on this thread really surprises me, Utd historically struggle in Spain, a team with 3/4 players nowhere near top match sharpness and Vds did not have a difficult save to make. It was not brilliant in terms of fluency but that was a pretty good performance against a decent side away from home.

Rafael was excellent up to about 70 mins, had a knock and laboured a bit for the last 20. before that he was doing very well, always getting a foot in, offering support and showing his usual energy.

Nani did not have his best game, but tonight showed how much he has come on in the year, head never went down, kept working hard, trying to create and started to get some joy in the last 20 because of it. Park is miles off the pace, our players were quite obviously avoiding passing to him in attacking areas, we badly need Obertan or Bebe to quickly offer an alternative.

Despite a bit of a struggle I think that team, with an on form Rooney added to it in place of Park is probably our strongest 11, Anderson, Carrick Rio and Rafael will surely get better with games. Berbatov looks much more happy in the lone striker role than he has before.

I'm still not sure it's ideal. He did okay today, but he's still a little too easily isolated, although it didn't help that Nani and Park's productivity was generally poor. He relies so much on combination play that at times when we can't get players close to him, he's either too easy for opposition defences to control, or he comes too far from goal to get involved. It was probably the right decision to start him tonight due to the need for bodies in midfield, but generally I think, away from home, without the pace, movement and sharpness of a Rooney or Macheda alongside him we're too one-dimensional going forward.

Originally Posted by rogieop

think fergie is afraid to play two small full backs tbh, a lot of teams play a big man up front and get him to pull off to the back on top of evra. thats fair enough, at least we know its happening and can get vidic/rio/evans to double up, but if we play rafael and evra in the same side the opposition have the option to dictate where to play the ball and to switch it up.

maybe im wrong. i doubt it though.

Reem, thoughts?

I won money on him being carded first in a euro game last season.

The rarity of me winning money on bets should deffo come into the equation.

He reminds me of a young Evra. When you consider that full backs end up swapping with centre backs these days you have to wonder if, like you say, there's an argument for balancing out the midget effect.

Definitely looks more stable this season.

Ive been out all night, gutted. how did the following players get on -

Rafael
Anderson
Carrick
Berbatov

And im not interested in the opinion of Rafabio, Marlo or Liu Juan, cheers.

Originally Posted by Gorilla Monsoon

Ive been out all night, gutted. how did the following players get on -

Rafael
Anderson
Carrick
Berbatov

And im not interested in the opinion of Rafabio, Marlo or Liu Juan, cheers.

They all did pretty well tbh. Berbs looked a bit frustrated. Anderson and Carrick obviously need more games. Rafael played well, showed maturity.

Originally Posted by BarryX

£#%&! that, then. I am going to burn the t-shirt I was starting to make for you with that phrase on it. you heartless @#%&!.

I didn't say I wouldn't want a nice T shirt.

You played your part Bazzer. It was epic, really.

We got a few breaks, defensively, but looked much more solid with Rio in, and Rafael was immense. The only worry was that they mentioned before the game that Rio was basically stood up for most of the flight to Valencia, due to back problems ("What back problems...?").

Carrick looked ok, considering his shocking form Feb-May last year.

Anderson was very good considering his poor form and injuries. Still looks a couple of stone over weight.

Park was as bad as I've ever seen him. Was basically responsible for the break down of any attacks we had in the first half. Seemed like the rest of the team stopped passing to him after the break, so his sole purpose was to provide cover for Evra.

Hernandez continues to remind me of Solskjaer. Neat and tidy outside the box, great movement, superb finish for the goal.

As for Valencia, that Soldado was a massive @#%&!, and pretty shit. Had the chances to have killed the game off before our goal.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Rafael is assertive, aggressive, never lets his man have an easy time on the ball, always looks to force the opponent into making a decision before they are ready. He also provides great support to his wide man.

Of course at times he over commits, is reckless in his tackles, gets drawn out of position, but he can make such a positive impact on games i feel he now has to be the number 1 right back.

I take Borsuk's point about him in a 4-4-2, perhaps Fergie went for the safer option fearing the midfield would be overrun at times, but O'Shea and Neville(at Everton) have both been poor this season, both exhibiting the frustratingly passive style of defending that has allowed teams to come back at us late in games and pen Utd in. Rafael is not that type of player, and that attitude he brings can influence the rest of the team.

His sending off against Bayern was a terrible moment both collectively and individually, exacerbated by the fact that he had given an outstanding level of performance.

Yep, agree totally.

Originally Posted by Part 36 Offer

i wont bother arguing you about football as you are clueless in the main

Another brilliant argument.

Seems like nobody agrees with you though.

nice to see carrick back, his touch was a bit off and he needs more games to get up to speed, but it was pretty clear to see what he offers.

i'm completely unconvinced by anderson as 10 playing off the striker. i've watched the videos of him at porto and i struggle to see the same player in him now. am i right in thinking he had a pretty bad injury? suppose some players never are the same after.

Rafael was great tonight, Southgate says he "came of age" but I thought he did that against Bayern. Sending off aside he was immense in that match. Can't fathom why Fergie hasn't been starting him unless he's been carrying something. I'd have him 1st choice right back all season.

Midfield looked more solid, no surprise given that maybe Hargreaves aside, it's our strongest three as far as energy and defensive capability's concerned. Add in Scholes and we've now got some real depth and competition there.

Great work from Kiko on the goal and a smart finish from Chicho. Considering Owen's form he still seems to be 5th choice, so again plenty of depth there too.

And Rio back

Originally Posted by fix up look SHARPE

nice to see carrick back, his touch was a bit off and he needs more games to get up to speed, but it was pretty clear to see what he offers.

i'm completely unconvinced by anderson as 10 playing off the striker. i've watched the videos of him at porto and i struggle to see the same player in him now. am i right in thinking he had a pretty bad injury? suppose some players never are the same after.

Funny how you're prepared to give Carrick time but not Anderson, after a much longer lay-off.

Originally Posted by andyroo

Funny how you're prepared to give Carrick time but not Anderson, after a much longer lay-off.

I don't think his comments are based solely on today's game...

Originally Posted by andyroo

Funny how you're prepared to give Carrick time but not Anderson, after a much longer lay-off.

your easily amused.

Originally Posted by Coracao

I don't think his comments are based solely on today's game...

Well, fair enough, but Anderson's been out for months.

Looks like he spent it eating, for that matter.

Originally Posted by andyroo

Well, fair enough, but Anderson's been out for months.

Looks like he spent it eating, for that matter.

I can't really disagree with his comments that he isn't the player to play the role he did tonight tbh. Whether he is fit or not. He doesn't have the attacking instinct to play the role effectively.