Ref Watch 23/24

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

https://twitter.com/alpha_utd/status...-fzTHQLXQ&s=19

I'm not fully on the train that VAR is fundamentally against us, I think most teams could put together a montage on how they been screwed over by it. Possibly us more than most.

The problem is that just makes a mockery out of VAR as a thing. If it's still getting loads of decisions wrong and is wildly inconsistent then what's the point in it at all? It's just spending a load more money per match, sucking any enjoyment out of a goal and stopping the game for minutes at a time to get to the same place as where we started, but with all the negative aspects on top.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

I'm not fully on the train that VAR is fundamentally against us, I think most teams could put together a montage on how they been screwed over by it. Possibly us more than most.

The problem is that just makes a mockery out of VAR as a thing. If it's still getting loads of decisions wrong and is wildly inconsistent then what's the point in it at all? It's just spending a load more money per match, sucking any enjoyment out of a goal and stopping the game for minutes at a time to get to the same place as where we started, but with all the negative aspects on top.

Yeah, agree. But I will say, we have been particularly well £#%&!ed by it. And it genuinely started when Klopp said we got too many penalties.

We've had 4 penalties in 2 years. It's shocking. What £#%&!s me off, more than anything at the moment, is a lack of highlighting this from EtH. It seems to work for the whinging @#%&!s out there - Klopp, Pep, Arteta (barring last night, but he'll be getting penalties AOTS now) etc.

Some of the decisions do make you wonder though. Rasmus vs Rodri last week was the apex of baffling decisions, if you go on the percentage on the same 'fouls' being given before or after. Rasmus being hauled down at Arsenal was brushed off by Dermot and friends but the City penalty was deemed like it was nailed on. Its the double standards, the lack of a dialogue and smug faceless @#%&!s not having to explain why 'A' is given but 'B' isn't. EtH is missing a trick by not opening his mouth though, NQAT.

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

Yeah, agree. But I will say, we have been particularly well £#%&!ed by it. And it genuinely started when Klopp said we got too many penalties.

We've had 4 penalties in 2 years. It's shocking. What £#%&!s me off, more than anything at the moment, is a lack of highlighting this from EtH. It seems to work for the whinging @#%&!s out there - Klopp, Pep, Arteta (barring last night, but he'll be getting penalties AOTS now) etc.

I agree, there's part of me that thinks it could all be more sinister than the officials being incompetent, but trying to give them the benefit of the doubt at the moment. But I agree some particularly shocking decisions and bending of the rules seems to have been applied in favour of the teams we've been playing against pretty consistently.

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

Some of the decisions do make you wonder though. Rasmus vs Rodri last week was the apex of baffling decisions, if you go on the percentage on the same 'fouls' being given before or after. Rasmus being hauled down at Arsenal was brushed off by Dermot and friends but the City penalty was deemed like it was nailed on. Its the double standards, the lack of a dialogue and smug faceless @#%&!s not having to explain why 'A' is given but 'B' isn't. EtH is missing a trick by not opening his mouth though, NQAT.

Well there's the 'foul' on Rodhri last week, but not a foul for the Newcastle goal on Saturday. Neither were picked up in real time and both would've been soft to give. Last week they went back and decided that even though it was extremely soft, for some reason it was enough to overturn the referees initial decision. But on Saturday Newcastle's goal was given and VAR felt the push on the defender was perfectly fine. There's zero consistency or sense in the decision making process.

The Bruno G elbow sums it up; a group of officials watched it about 10 times and decided that it's perfectly fine. Either they're incompetent or corrupt. I suppose one is slightly better than the other.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

The Bruno G elbow sums it up; a group of officials watched it about 10 times and decided that it's perfectly fine. Either they're incompetent or corrupt. I suppose one is slightly better than the other.

Stickman Rawk alert

That IS a corrupt decision. You show 100 'football' people that incident and 95 are saying its a red by any standard and probably in any era.

I cant for the life of me believe the VAR squids would actually think thats fine.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

I agree, there's part of me that thinks it could all be more sinister than the officials being incompetent, but trying to give them the benefit of the doubt at the moment. But I agree some particularly shocking decisions and bending of the rules seems to have been applied in favour of the teams we've been playing against pretty consistently.


Well there's the 'foul' on Rodhri last week, but not a foul for the Newcastle goal on Saturday. Neither were picked up in real time and both would've been soft to give. Last week they went back and decided that even though it was extremely soft, for some reason it was enough to overturn the referees initial decision. But on Saturday Newcastle's goal was given and VAR felt the push on the defender was perfectly fine. There's zero consistency or sense in the decision making process.

The Bruno G elbow sums it up; a group of officials watched it about 10 times and decided that it's perfectly fine. Either they're incompetent or corrupt. I suppose one is slightly better than the other.

It is baffling and does seem more than just sheer incompetence. It's like the Rashford 'ball out' vs Brighton. EXACTLY the same as Newcastles last night. One was ruled out by VAR and the other was 'VAR won't overturn the on field decision'. What's that about? Either VAR CAN rule out, or it CANT. This is where its suspicious, its like if anything happens with us, every rule in the world is pored over until something can be given against us.

Originally Posted by Stickman

Stickman Rawk alert

That IS a corrupt decision. You show 100 'football' people that incident and 95 are saying its a red by any standard and probably in any era.

I cant for the life of me believe the VAR squids would actually think thats fine.

I'm assuming the 5 that don't think it's a red are Newcastle fans. Otherwise I think it's closer to 100 out of 100. For all the shite that's gone against us, that's probably the worst decision I've ever seen from VAR.

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

It is baffling and does seem more than just sheer incompetence. It's like the Rashford 'ball out' vs Brighton. EXACTLY the same as Newcastles last night. One was ruled out by VAR and the other was 'VAR won't overturn the on field decision'. What's that about? Either VAR CAN rule out, or it CANT. This is where its suspicious, its like if anything happens with us, every rule in the world is pored over until something can be given against us.

It's hard to argue against that at times. It did feel as though they were trying everything to write off The Scottish Players opener on Saturday.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

The Bruno G elbow sums it up; a group of officials watched it about 10 times and decided that it's perfectly fine. Either they're incompetent or corrupt. I suppose one is slightly better than the other.

That one was brushed off as a possible yellow by most of the "pundits" that I saw.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

I'm assuming the 5 that don't think it's a red are Newcastle fans. Otherwise I think it's closer to 100 out of 100. For all the shite that's gone against us, that's probably the worst decision I've ever seen from VAR.



It's hard to argue against that at times. It did feel as though they were trying everything to write off The Scottish Players opener on Saturday.

Yep, tbh I was trying to play devils advocate with my own opinion a bit there.

The precedent that sets though

Can’t pull the “well he’s raised his hands” card ever again.

Originally Posted by Big Norm

That one was brushed off as a possible yellow by most of the "pundits" that I saw.

Genuinely makes me question if the Saudis are paying the networks handsome backhanders.

Absolutely bonkers.

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

Some of the decisions do make you wonder though. Rasmus vs Rodri last week was the apex of baffling decisions, if you go on the percentage on the same 'fouls' being given before or after. Rasmus being hauled down at Arsenal was brushed off by Dermot and friends but the City penalty was deemed like it was nailed on. Its the double standards, the lack of a dialogue and smug faceless @#%&!s not having to explain why 'A' is given but 'B' isn't. EtH is missing a trick by not opening his mouth though, NQAT.

Not only that, but it wasn't even looked at by VAR. How is that decision made? 'We can't be bothered looking at that one'. Why not? Who decides which ones are looked at and which ones aren't?

Originally Posted by Zorg

Not only that, but it wasn't even looked at by VAR. How is that decision made? 'We can't be bothered looking at that one'. Why not? Who decides which ones are looked at and which ones aren't?

Exactly

I'm not being scouse (despite what Bellers says) but it really does seem like "Nope, it's United - not looking!" - especially if you look at all the other decisions that game. Garnacho wasn't offside and Saka could've easily seen red for an OTT challenge. That one, again, was "hmmm, yeah....he's gone over the top buy yeah...booking is fine".

Palace last season away, when The Scottish Player was scythed down - you've never seen a more blatant penalty. Its not given and its baffling, then Palace score at the death. There's far too many incidents now to think it's just bad calls. We've had easily the worst and more frequent calls against us than any other team. Yes, every team can say they've had iffy calls. But 4 penalties in 2 years and a whole swathe of mental calls? "Subjective offside" Seriously, who's ever heard that mentioned before?

Originally Posted by Big Norm

That one was brushed off as a possible yellow by most of the "pundits" that I saw.

Originally Posted by Stickman

Genuinely makes me question if the Saudis are paying the networks handsome backhanders.

Absolutely bonkers.

I wonder if it's more some sort of agreement between PGMOL and broadcasters to have more referees on broadcasts to 'explain' decisions and in return pundits and commentators are instructed to be on the side of the officials during games and post match.

Always question myself with this stuff but when level heads like Zorg and Stickers question it…

Something seriously off with this shit. £#%&!ing refs constantly, directly affecting outcomes with zero accountability needs looking at. You can even suspect certain refs (like the schoolboy, who literally stopped the game from his var station and as good as told the ref what he had to do) but it has become endemic, almost regardless of the ref

The game is so £#%&!ed everywhere you look:

Permitted, selected takeovers
FIFA
Uefa
Fa
PL
Refs
Media
Agents
@#%&!ish players

The only aspect with any integrity are the fans and yet, we all feed it

Beginning to not even care if it went Superleague. Game is absolutely £#%&!ed.

Need a good football journalist out there to investigate how all this soft PR from the oil countries is involving refs. Going to be tough though as most journalists enjoy the game gravy train.

If you are a ref and you get a 5 star paid junket to the UAE to do some 'training', guaranteed you will treat them different, no matter how much you say it doesn't make a difference. You want that next invite right?

Back in one of my old jobs, I'd get all sort of invites and gifts from media companies. I'd be lying if I said none of this had an impact on me.

Refs should be banned from taking any kind of payment from a country that owns a PL club. Full stop.

Originally Posted by Denis Irwell

Always question myself with this stuff but when level heads like Zorg and Stickers question it…

Something seriously off with this shit. £#%&!ing refs constantly, directly affecting outcomes with zero accountability needs looking at. You can even suspect certain refs (like the schoolboy, who literally stopped the game from his var station and as good as told the ref what he had to do) but it has become endemic, almost regardless of the ref

The game is so £#%&!ed everywhere you look:

Permitted, selected takeovers
FIFA
Uefa
Fa
PL
Refs
Media
Agents
@#%&!ish players

The only aspect with any integrity are the fans and yet, we all feed it

Beginning to not even care if it went Superleague. Game is absolutely £#%&!ed.

I'm not one for calling corruption. For example we can't complain too much about not getting penalties when we've been shit at getting into the opposition box. I always think of the ABUs who used to stick 11 behind the ball at OT and then moan that they didn't get penalties

But some of them have been incredible - the handball at Spurs being one of the very worst. Imagine the impact if that had been given, on both clubs. It was pretty much the definition of handball and it's just incomprehensible how anyone could look at that and think it wasn't, and of course since then we've seen several identical incidents given without any protest.

Ten Hag needs to be calling this out every game.

It's all very well playing nice with the refs, but look where that's got us.

I cannot believe that Ferguson wasn't telling him to be on the refs 24/7 when they had that tete-a-tete.

It's up to Hag to bring this up and keep hammering these @#%&!s every time they pull some bullshit.

Originally Posted by Zorg

I'm not one for calling corruption. For example we can't complain too much about not getting penalties when we've been shit at getting into the opposition box. I always think of the ABUs who used to stick 11 behind the ball at OT and then moan that they didn't get penalties

But some of them have been incredible - the handball at Spurs being one of the very worst. Imagine the impact if that had been given, on both clubs. It was pretty much the definition of handball and it's just incomprehensible how anyone could look at that and think it wasn't, and of course since then we've seen several identical incidents given without any protest.

When you look at the absolute joke handball decisions that have been given out in recent months then you look at the one at Spurs it's utterly mind boggling how that wasn't given. Charges at the ball, hands over his head and blocks the ball from going toward the goal. As you say it's pretty much text book.

Compare that with them giving out penatlies like against Sheff Utd for instance where a ball is just slung into the box from a wide area and The Scottish Player who's arm is by his side and can't get it out the way quick enough and it's hard to not think something dodgy is going on.

Originally Posted by Denis Irwell

Always question myself with this stuff but when level heads like Zorg and Stickers question it…

Something seriously off with this shit. £#%&!ing refs constantly, directly affecting outcomes with zero accountability needs looking at. You can even suspect certain refs (like the schoolboy, who literally stopped the game from his var station and as good as told the ref what he had to do) but it has become endemic, almost regardless of the ref

The game is so £#%&!ed everywhere you look:

Permitted, selected takeovers
FIFA
Uefa
Fa
PL
Refs
Media
Agents
@#%&!ish players

The only aspect with any integrity are the fans and yet, we all feed it

Beginning to not even care if it went Superleague. Game is absolutely £#%&!ed.

This is the thing - if referees had to explain themselves in a public forum, after every round of games, it'd be more transparent and you'd be a lot less likely to get these "Yes, penalty for Arsenal but not for United and yes, it's exactly the same incident" decisions. Nobody is accountable.

If a player spits at another player or @#%&!s another player off the ball and the ref doesn't see it, they're accountable (unless you're Guimaraes). If a manager calls the refree a joke or says a decision is outrageous, they're accountable and are usually punished. Why ar referees never asked to explain a game deciding decision or a decision that is totally wrong? I can't comprehend it.

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

This is the thing - if referees had to explain themselves in a public forum, after every round of games, it'd be more transparent and you'd be a lot less likely to get these "Yes, penalty for Arsenal but not for United and yes, it's exactly the same incident" decisions. Nobody is accountable.

If a player spits at another player or @#%&!s another player off the ball and the ref doesn't see it, they're accountable (unless you're Guimaraes). If a manager calls the refree a joke or says a decision is outrageous, they're accountable and are usually punished. Why ar referees never asked to explain a game deciding decision or a decision that is totally wrong? I can't comprehend it.

Would you?

I think we’ve already got too many refs and ex refs sticking their oar in. We’ve seen what they’re like. They just defend the decisions, themselves and their mates.

They released the audio of the spurs v Liverpool clip. Did it make it any better? Did it tell you anything you didn’t already know?

Personally, I couldn’t give a £#%&! about an explanation or an apology from a referee. Just do better. I think they should have less of a platform and focus, not more.

Originally Posted by Denis Irwell

Always question myself with this stuff but when level heads like Zorg and Stickers question it…

Something seriously off with this shit. £#%&!ing refs constantly, directly affecting outcomes with zero accountability needs looking at. You can even suspect certain refs (like the schoolboy, who literally stopped the game from his var station and as good as told the ref what he had to do) but it has become endemic, almost regardless of the ref

The game is so £#%&!ed everywhere you look:

Permitted, selected takeovers
FIFA
Uefa
Fa
PL
Refs
Media
Agents
@#%&!ish players

The only aspect with any integrity are the fans and yet, we all feed it

Beginning to not even care if it went Superleague. Game is absolutely £#%&!ed.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Would you?

I think we’ve already got too many refs and ex refs sticking their oar in. We’ve seen what they’re like. They just defend the decisions, themselves and their mates.

They released the audio of the spurs v Liverpool clip. Did it make it any better? Did it tell you anything you didn’t already know?

Personally, I couldn’t give a £#%&! about an explanation or an apology from a referee. Just do better. I think they should have less of a platform and focus, not more.

I mean, I'd prefer a two way dialogue where managers can ask why etc to try and understand the logic.

For instance, the Garnacho handball at Spurs and then the Arsenal handball vs Spurs. Exactly the same, two different outcomes. It'd be £#%&!ing marvellous to be able to show both incidents and ask PGMOL what the £#%&!ing difference is.

The absolute lack of an explanation is enraging.

Some embarrassing posts in here. When did Howard Webb sign for the scousers?

Spend more time in the opposition box actually threatening defenders and probably get more penalties.

Weird how the teams struggling always seem to be the ones suffering from the corruption