Van Gaal has to be sacked TONIGHT

Originally Posted by Lazlo Panaflex

Stupid to support lvg just for the sake of supporting him.

Support him if you believe he can turn it around.

I believe he can. I honestly think we'd be in a miles better position had he got hold of this squad immediately after Ferguson. I don't think the impact of last season and the transfer failings of the summer of '13 can be underestimated, or the effect of so many senior players leaving in such a short space of time. I think the relatively short amount of time he had with the players prior to the season starting and to decide what was needed in terms of additions and to identify the additions has also hamstrung him. End of next season is when I'll start wanting shut. I always thought we'd be £#%&!ed completely once SAF went, fortunately the financial situation means there is likely a way back, but stability within the planning is required and I can't think of a manager with any chance of coming to OT that I would trust with such an undertaking more than I would van Gaal tbh. It's just going to take longer than he or the board envisioned due to this season basically being a write off.

Was in denial last night but have come to the realisation that:

WE WILL FINISH 6TH

THE VERMIN WILL FINISH IN THE TOP FOUR

THE VERMIN WILL WIN THE FA CUP


:shakehead: This season will be almost as bad as last. Perhaps as bad.

Originally Posted by dunk

I believe he can. I honestly think we'd be in a miles better position had he got hold of this squad immediately after Ferguson. I don't think the impact of last season and the transfer failings of the summer of '13 can be underestimated, or the effect of so many senior players leaving in such a short space of time. I think the relatively short amount of time he had with the players prior to the season starting and to decide what was needed in terms of additions and to identify the additions has also hamstrung him. End of next season is when I'll start wanting shut. I always thought we'd be £#%&!ed completely once SAF went, fortunately the financial situation means there is likely a way back, but stability within the planning is required and I can't think of a manager with any chance of coming to OT that I would trust with such an undertaking more than I would van Gaal tbh. It's just going to take longer than he or the board envisioned due to this season basically being a write off.

OK imagine I am from Mars and havent seen much of the last two seasons, accepting what you have said above please explain to me why;

1. He keeps picking Fellaini
2. He doesnt play Rafael but plays a limited winger there instead
3. He never plays Mata and rarely Herrera
4. He has no idea what formation to play
5. He kept Valencia ove Nani

Just a few questions us Martians would like answered.

Originally Posted by goingforgold

This season will be almost as bad as last. Perhaps as bad.

Would be much worse, at least at the end of last season we got rid of moyes and had one of the biggest laughs ever!

Finishing 6th would mean europa league while Liverpool get 6 games in the champions league and Gerrard gets his Wembley send off

Solidity and lack of options.

Mata doesn't play because he's weak, slow, an accident waiting to happen and doesn't affect the game. He plays Fellaini because he holds the ball up, tends to use it conservatively but safely and offers a different option. Not ideal, and I don't like it, but when your options are the utterly garbage Falcao and the aforementioned Mata, it's understandable. Also, he hasn't played half as much as people think. Lack of solid CM options is another reason for the presence of Fellaini and the absence of Mata.

Rafael has burned his bridges i fear by being too inconsistent and constantly picking up injuries, sad. Shaw needs to stay fit or he'll go the same way.

Herrera is a strange one, but he's been back in favour recently. He is a br lightweight and when paired with Blind, who has been just about our only CM the majority of the time, it leaves us weak in the middle as he has a tendency to switch off on his defensive responsibility. And we're already carrying a few who do that.

The players we have are a hotch potch, they don't all fit one set formation/style of play, and the line up has been changing every game for one reason or another and as he seeks a formation that works for them, constantly undermined by injuries, stupid mistakes and lack of confidence caused by the other 2. It's getting more consistent though.

Valencia has more use in more areas than Nani, and Nani wanted to go as h was having personal issues and needed to get out of the not playing/injured rut he was in at OT.

Also on the Mata/Herrera thing, he's had to spend most of the season fitting in 2 utterly useless and immobile strikers and has had to compensate for their lack of defensive work. And Di Maria for that matter. Is it any surprise that Herrera finds himself playing now RvP is out and Rooney is back up top, grafting?

Originally Posted by irk

The trouble is If we don't make fourth and offer champions league football we won't be able to attract the standard of mercenary we need to push on. We're in the doldrums right now, but if we don't make fourth its a rapidly downward spiral to being the Liverpool of the 90s. We're already a bigger bunch of @#%&! than arsenal (albeit without the football). Same as last season other teams know we're there for the taking.

its the same week in week out. Lvg seems to have no answers. Even Brenton was able to adapt and consequently turn around the shitfest that was Liverpool's early form and they're looking far more likely to take fourth than we are.

Can anyone say what it is he's trying to instill in the players? Can anyone point to a style? can anyone see an evolution in the football we are playing?

From what I can see its "for £#%&!s sake don't give it away and we might get lucky and pinch one" , then when we go behind its "punt it to the big fella".

Do I not like that.

I think we saw development of what he wants several times in that first half when Arsenal tried to press us high. The short passing game and the emphasis on not panicking and trusting each other with the ball in tight areas. There were several occasions where we played our way past Arsenal's high press, especially down the right which is where I think Valencia particularly impressed LvG.

He wants them all comfortable on the ball. To be used to controlling and asserting themselves on the game. That side has developed, as United have become the team in the league with the highest ball possession. That's an important step, but while it's still in the early stages and while there are still the odd mistakes it doesn't look great. But we played quite well first half, which some seem to have been too busy whining to notice.

There's also an issue of personnel. We're all disappointed with the quality of football, albeit I think it's improved recently. Player wise, our results are about right though. Blind is a good player, but he's a stepdown on the Carrick we've been used to. Herrera has won fans since arriving, but this is still a bloke who has never been able to get near the Spain squad. Mata is a reserve for them, too. Then you've got guys like Valencia, Smalling, Young and Fellaini starting. It's not a great group of players, is it? We need more leadership, too.

Herrera is just as much of a luxury player as mata IMO.

Those two and di maria in midfield basically means it's useless when the oppo gets a hold of the game.

Originally Posted by Red Al

How long will it be now before the CO92 including giggs start being @#%&!s?

sooner Giggs is £#%&!ed off the better. @#%&!

Originally Posted by Doctor Hver

I hope we miss out on top four now don´t deserve that, and if thats the only thing that get LVG sacked then it has to be. :shakehead:

i genuinely hope you choke on a dictionary

Originally Posted by saffers

IMO its not reactionary when sages like mj ramone, fuzzy dunlop, irk and baron all have huge doubts or want a change.
.

no one gives a £#%&! what those @#%&!s think. only you. using them to push your agenda against LvG

still, you carry on dropping shit for brain names, LvG aint going nowhere pol.

Originally Posted by waynes ear's

still, you carry on dropping shit for brain names, LvG aint going nowhere pol.

Neither are we.

Originally Posted by waynes ear's

sooner Giggs is £#%&!ed off the better. @#%&!



i genuinely hope you choke on a dictionary



no one gives a £#%&! what those @#%&!s think. only you. using them to push your agenda against LvG

still, you carry on dropping shit for brain names, LvG aint going nowhere pol.

Considering the standard of players we have at our disposal and the psychological impact of last seasons debacle, we are where we should be imo

Its been painful to watch for the mere fact we keep taking 2 steps forward and 4 steps back. case in point our form heading into Arsenal was decent, we start the game alright, we conceade a silly goal, respond well and finish the half strong, but somehow implode in the 2nd half with little to no encouragement from Arsenal, that was hard to watch/stomach

but i honestly think, with the players we have 4th or 3rd is about right. i would go as far to say i dont know of any manager (thats available) who would have done better.

im pretty sure even if Moyes was given time, he would have been nowhere near top 4

i just hope we can hold strong until the end of the season, get top 4 and spend the rest of the summer doing a root & stem analysis of our squad. so many of those players are stealing a living at the mo and living off past glories (if that)

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I think we saw development of what he wants several times in that first half when Arsenal tried to press us high. The short passing game and the emphasis on not panicking and trusting each other with the ball in tight areas. There were several occasions where we played our way past Arsenal's high press, especially down the right which is where I think Valencia particularly impressed LvG.

The first half was good. I enjoyed it, I enjoyed the pace & the speed of passing.

& then he shit it at half time. Despite the fact we created the chances, & that really only Blind was playing poorly, he took off Herrera & Shaw (presumably injured / precautionary?) but it made no £#%&!ing sense. It absolutely murdered our attacking shape, the pace of the side & backfired to the point of frustrating our own players into their usual shit@#%&!ery.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

We need more leadership, too.

Starts with him. He's unequivocally one of the most conservative managers in the league which is boring the absolute £#%&! out of me. His contradictory stance on possession & Fellaini is frankly staggering. He backs Falcao publicly in the presser after but when we needed a goal he bought Januzaj on (I'm not saying he should have bought him on, I'm saying he's very easy to catch out & say "bullshit" to).

Apologise for his tenure as much as you want, he's too pragmatic these days to be a United manager in my eyes. His decision making has been £#%&! & his relentless passing back to the 'keeper doesn't tell me he's laying foundations. It tells me he lacks an attacking heart. His soul isn't into the daring do United philosophy. He's into Van Gaal's philosophy of 2015 (not '95) which is fine if you want to go with it. I do not.

I can't specify how much respect I have for him & his career, I just think he's the wrong man for United in my opinion.

Originally Posted by That Boy Ronaldo!

Neither are we.

who are the "we" ?

names please.

hopefully #@&%!s like you get so pissed off you either spontaneously combust, or £#%&! off and support someone else.

shit the bed £#%&!ers

Originally Posted by waynes ear's

who are the "we" ?

names please.

hopefully #@&%!s like you get so pissed off you either spontaneously combust, or £#%&! off and support someone else.

shit the bed £#%&!ers

you've changed since you got that season ticket.

this conservative argument is a bit odd

if we can all come to agreement that this squad is generally quite shite, what makes some of you think we SHOULD be playing free flowing attacking football with the current personnel?

if anything pragmatism and conservative football is exactly what we should be doing with a team made up of Fellaini, Young, Valencia, Smalling & co

anything else would be suicidal imo - case in point Moyes last season

"We need more leaders"

Meanwhile van Gaal sends Giggs down to sort out the mess. Giggs looks like the only one who gives a £#%&!.

Originally Posted by Baron

The first half was good. I enjoyed it, I enjoyed the pace & the speed of passing.

& then he shit it at half time. Despite the fact we created the chances, & that really only Blind was playing poorly, he took off Herrera & Shaw (presumably injured / precautionary?) but it made no £#%&!ing sense. It absolutely murdered our attacking shape, the pace of the side & backfired to the point of frustrating our own players into their usual shit@#%&!ery.



Starts with him. He's unequivocally one of the most conservative managers in the league which is boring the absolute £#%&! out of me. His contradictory stance on possession & Fellaini is frankly staggering. He backs Falcao publicly in the presser after but when we needed a goal he bought Januzaj on (I'm not saying he should have bought him on, I'm saying he's very easy to catch out & say "bullshit" to).

Apologise for his tenure as much as you want, he's too pragmatic these days to be a United manager in my eyes. His decision making has been £#%&! & his relentless passing back to the 'keeper doesn't tell me he's laying foundations. It tells me he lacks an attacking heart. His soul isn't into the daring do United philosophy. He's into Van Gaal's philosophy of 2015 (not '95) which is fine if you want to go with it. I do not.

I can't specify how much respect I have for him & his career, I just think he's the wrong man for United in my opinion.

I just don't think his style is implemented overnight, and often it does start with priorotising keeping the ball. I honestly think we'd have seen something similar had he arrived ten years ago. Don't forget that he had his critics in Holland in the 90s' for being structure over flair, too. I don't disagree that he may be more pragmatic these days, but I still think it's a little early to tell.

Aside from the baffling loyalty to Fellaini in the last couple of games, I don't have an awful lot of issue with him still. If we're no better to watch this time next year then fine, but I saw a United side last night start positively, trying to assert themselves and push Arsenal back. More in that direction and I'm confident going forward. But we do need better players, with or without van Gaal.

Originally Posted by That Boy Ronaldo!

"We need more leaders"

Meanwhile van Gaal sends Giggs down to sort out the mess. Giggs looks like the only one who gives a £#%&!.

Do you not think we need more leaders?

As far as I am aware van Gaal has always let his assistants give orders during matches. Pretty sure I remember seeing Jonker do so at OT. Could be wong, feels like a lifetime ago

Originally Posted by Jethro

Do you not think we need more leaders?

As far as I am aware van Gaal has always let his assistants give orders during matches. Pretty sure I remember seeing Jonker do so at OT. Could be wong, feels like a lifetime ago

Absolutely. But it starts from the top imo.

Just looks very weird how Giggs is the one sorting it out and not van Gaal. He comes across like he really doesn't care.

"You have trained them to read the game by themselves. It is much more important that they are more involved with the game, that they make their own decisions. It is like a child, you educate.

‘Sometimes they can’t read that but then you have half-time or you have a (substitution). Then you can say to the player who is coming on to the pitch how they have to play in their position. You have to transfer that."

Fergie only really got up to have a go at refs. The idea is that you trust the players.