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Old 08-03-2018, 10:20 PM
sub three hours
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem


This is what happens when the earlier discussions fudged the issue of the border between the UK and the EU27.

It was only a matter of time before all of the good intentions announced by May (and then immediately undermined by her Brexit Bulldog Boris) were put to the test in a legally binding agreement on the border.

The reality is (and we all arrived at it months ago on here) that there isn't a politically acceptable solution to having a soft border without the UK agreeing to meet the regulatory requirements of the single market.

We all knew that the UK could never ever sign up to an agreement on a soft border and also leave the single market without creating a customs problem between NI and GB.

Over to you PM. Do you have the balls to do what is really necessary and put a halt to the nonsense that is Brexit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Norm
I refer you to the UK governments commitment in December. They agreed there would be no checks between North and South. Both your examples have border checks as standard.
I'm completely sure that if we ask the unicorns to solve the NI/Ireland border challenge they will; and they will save money for the NHS as a by product.
 
Old 08-03-2018, 11:55 PM
Zorg
 
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Old 09-03-2018, 06:31 AM
jem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sub three hours
Over to you PM. Do you have the balls to do what is really necessary and put a halt to the nonsense that is Brexit?
surely, do you have the balls to do what is necessary and explain that the border will be whatever it is dependent on the brexit negotiations?


"no cherry picking!"

"er.... but you will let us keep fishing in your waters, won't you?"
 
Old 09-03-2018, 07:19 AM
sub three hours
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem
surely, do you have the balls to do what is necessary and explain that the border will be whatever it is dependent on the brexit negotiations?


"no cherry picking!"

"er.... but you will let us keep fishing in your waters, won't you?"



Teresa May and the EU already agreed the solution during Phase 1 - she told the EU that she promised there would be no border infrastructure across Ireland, and they agreed.

All they are asking now is that she explains her plan behind her promise, so it can be put into the legal agreement on the subject.

If you agree something, then surely you should be able to explain what you have agreed to without any difficulty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorg

 
Old 09-03-2018, 07:37 AM
red red robbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazlo Panaflex
The Tories are basically calling the ira's bluff. f*** you we'll put a hard border and do nothing to solve power showering so you'll get direct rule. What'll you do paddy? You'll do nuttin!

It's a bold move cotton. But it just might pay off (if it wasn't for those pesky continental sticking up for the bog trotters )
Is there a water shortage in Ireland or something

Quote:
Originally Posted by irk
can we not just give ireland back? what are the proddies going to do about it? any terrorism would be big ireland's problem. let them fight it out between themselves. plus we can prevent cream returning to these shores with the hardest of borders.
This has become my preferred approach. They are nothing but a burden anyway and we could do with ridding ourselves of all the dead wood we can in the next few years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tatty
It's all out there for those who are interested in learning about the solutions available rather than clinging on to the 'problem' in the hope it is an insurmountable one that provides the excuse for denying Brexit.

Have a look at how quickly vehicles cross the Norway-Sweden border, or indeed the US-Canada one, where technology has provided the answers.
Even if the technology you have suggested in your two examples (which still don't meet the criteria required, i.e. NO checks), is capable of providing the controls required seamlessly, what are the chances of the UK being able to get the whole thing up and working in less than two years?
 
Old 09-03-2018, 08:04 AM
My Name is Keith
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sub three hours



Teresa May and the EU already agreed the solution during Phase 1 - she told the EU that she promised there would be no border infrastructure across Ireland, and they agreed.

All they are asking now is that she explains her plan behind her promise, so it can be put into the legal agreement on the subject.

If you agree something, then surely you should be able to explain what you have agreed to without any difficulty?



Careful subbers- jem will hit you with another devastating response along the lines ‘it will be what it will be’ or ‘it will be what gets negotiated’. Very difficult to respond to such analysis and insight.
 
Old 09-03-2018, 08:07 AM
sub three hours
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red red robbo


This has become my preferred approach. They are nothing but a burden anyway and we could do with ridding ourselves of all the dead wood we can in the next few years.



If the far-right god-botherer’s weren't propping up a failed UK government this would have been the preffered choice.

To be fair to May, she volunteered a border in the Irish sea only to be dragged out of the meeting by Arlene Foster and told "never...never....never!"

I don't think Britain will produce an Irish border solution any time soon, if ever. So, it could mean Brexit is postponed more-or-less for ever. That could be a good thing if we can just stay in the EU until it is resolved.

Alternatively, if it meant a "falling off the cliff" Brexit with no agreement on anything then probably Parliament wouldn't allow that to happen, maybe there'd have to be another referendum, certainly it would prompt a political crisis and there'd have to be a general election which the Tories would lose.

Anyway looking at the headlines, it's another good news day for Brexit. What happened to 'they need us more than we need them'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Name is Keith
Careful subbers- jem will hit you with another devastating response along the lines ‘it will be what it will be’ or ‘it will be what gets negotiated’. Very difficult to respond to such analysis and insight.
 
Old 09-03-2018, 09:08 AM
jem
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sub three hours
May and the EU already agreed the solution during Phase 1 - she told the EU that she promised there would be no border infrastructure across Ireland, and they agreed.

All they are asking now is that she explains her plan behind her promise, so it can be put into the legal agreement on the subject.

If you agree something, then surely you should be able to explain what you have agreed to without any difficulty?
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Name is Keith
Careful subbers- jem will hit you with another devastating response along the lines ‘it will be what it will be’ or ‘it will be what gets negotiated’. Very difficult to respond to such analysis and insight.
mock, if you will, keef, but that is the problem, so it isn't surprising if I say the same again. the uk didn't agree any solution - they agreed a fallback position in the event there was no agreement. but the negotiated solution needs to be negotiated. it's not a unilateral process.

it is obvious that the uk's preference would be to have the border at the border (maintaining the integrity of the uk), to minimise the need for any controls (which depends on where we are on the cu / a cu, access to the sm and an fta). given the eu's shock at trump's tariff war, we can assume they're against the imposition of tariffs to punish anyone for leaving. then just take a sensible approach to whatever checks are needed (doing off-site or whatever).

if the eu just says "that won't work" to every suggestion, without entering a dialogue or showing any flexibility or willingness shape a solution which might be mutually acceptable, the process will not go anywhere. the uk approach should be "do you want to negotiate or not, because you're just wasting everyone's time? take it seriously or you can have a hard border this week-end."
 
Old 09-03-2018, 09:20 AM
red red robbo
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jem
mock, if you will, keef, but that is the problem, so it isn't surprising if I say the same again. the uk didn't agree any solution - they agreed a fallback position in the event there was no agreement. but the negotiated solution needs to be negotiated. it's not a unilateral process.

it is obvious that the uk's preference would be to have the border at the border (maintaining the integrity of the uk), to minimise the need for any controls (which depends on where we are on the cu / a cu, access to the sm and an fta). given the eu's shock at trump's tariff war, we can assume they're against the imposition of tariffs to punish anyone for leaving. then just take a sensible approach to whatever checks are needed (doing off-site or whatever).

if the eu just says "that won't work" to every suggestion, without entering a dialogue or showing any flexibility or willingness shape a solution which might be mutually acceptable, the process will not go anywhere. the uk approach should be "do you want to negotiate or not, because you're just wasting everyone's time? take it seriously or you can have a hard border this week-end."
If every suggestion is clearly unworkable, or so woolly as to be worth as much as one of your posts on this thread then what more can the EU do?

The UK approach should be to put forward a comprehensive, workable solution that has some chance of being implemented in time in the event of a failure to negotiate an alternative CU/SM/FTA.

Of course there is no workable solution that can be implemented in time so the UK should agree that its fallback position is that we will remain aligned with the EU until such a system is in place. That would allow us to move on to Phase 3 now, without having to worry about the technical details of the "smart border", in the hope that it will not be required. There is of course a risk that we may end up tied to the EU rules for another five years, but if that's what it takes to do things properly then that's what we should do.
 
Old 09-03-2018, 09:21 AM
sub three hours
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jem

if the eu just says "that won't work" to every suggestion, without entering a dialogue or showing any flexibility or willingness shape a solution which might be mutually acceptable, the process will not go anywhere. the uk approach should be "do you want to negotiate or not, because you're just wasting everyone's time? take it seriously or you can have a hard border this week-end."
No more drivel about Harry Potter style technology, no more Rees Smogg blustering on about doing away with the Good Friday Agreement, no more cloud cuckoo land, neo-colonialist dog shite from Johnson, no more nonsensical double-speak from the hideous Arlene...

Times up, proper grown answers to proper grown up questions are now required.
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