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Old 28-12-2017, 09:13 PM
Sparky***
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
It was definitely a factor. Just like many other things are factors; blaming just one is silly.

I have no doubt that had Fergie been ten years younger he would not have managed the squad in the same way as he did during those closing seasons. To allow Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Giggs, Scholes, Rooney and Fletcher to all decline together, then add Van Persie as his own going away present, was probably not the Fergie we knew with his eyes on the future.

It ended up leaving us playing catch-up in the market. Even with a blank chequebook, how on earth do you replace those players so quickly? The failures in the market and the constant changing of our direction under different managers has compounded it.

As has the fact that over the last three years City have spent big, but also spent well. They have had a few duds, but the big ones have been right. In 2015: Sterling, De Bruyne for £100m - great value. And Delph and Otamendi who are decent.

2016 they get the duds of Nolito and Bravo, but Sane, Stones and Jesus for the big money. Also Gundogan who now fit is showing he's a top player. This summer there were jokes about Walker, but he and Ederson have been outstanding additions. As Mendy should.

Many factors are behind it. But this is football and things change quickly. Cycles come and go. If we get our shit straight we'll be prime to take over when the Guardiola bubble bursts. I do fear that it might be a quite brutal next two or three years though.
Brutal two or three years? Bar 2013, since 2012 it's been constant kicks in the bollocks for the last 6 fucking years pal.

You can point to them battering us 6-1, or turning up at old trafford pretty much every single season since 2011 and beating us at our own ground, or sealing the title with the last kick of the season, or beating us in the semi finals of the FA Cup to all but end their 30 odd year wait for a trophy...

...but their ultimate victory against us, their crowning fucking glory is effectively ending our season in December. Ultimately humiliating and reminding us just how far we've fallen.

Brutal two years? I don't even think we'd notice pal, we're punch drunk at this stage.
 
Old 28-12-2017, 09:14 PM
Clownbones
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
It was definitely a factor. Just like many other things are factors; blaming just one is silly.

I have no doubt that had Fergie been ten years younger he would not have managed the squad in the same way as he did during those closing seasons. To allow Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Giggs, Scholes, Rooney and Fletcher to all decline together, then add Van Persie as his own going away present, was probably not the Fergie we knew with his eyes on the future.

It ended up leaving us playing catch-up in the market. Even with a blank chequebook, how on earth do you replace those players so quickly? The failures in the market and the constant changing of our direction under different managers has compounded it.

As has the fact that over the last three years City have spent big, but also spent well. They have had a few duds, but the big ones have been right. In 2015: Sterling, De Bruyne for £100m - great value. And Delph and Otamendi who are decent.

2016 they get the duds of Nolito and Bravo, but Sane, Stones and Jesus for the big money. Also Gundogan who now fit is showing he's a top player. This summer there were jokes about Walker, but he and Ederson have been outstanding additions. As Mendy should.

Many factors are behind it. But this is football and things change quickly. Cycles come and go. If we get our shit straight we'll be prime to take over when the Guardiola bubble bursts. I do fear that it might be a quite brutal next two or three years though.
Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky***
Brutal two or three years? Bar 2013, since 2012 it's been constant kicks in the bollocks for the last 6 fucking years pal.

You can point to them battering us 6-1, or turning up at old trafford pretty much every single season since 2011 and beating us at our own ground, or sealing the title with the last kick of the season, or beating us in the semi finals of the FA Cup to all but end their 30 odd year wait for a trophy...

...but their ultimate victory against us, their crowning fucking glory is effectively ending our season in December. Ultimately humiliating and reminding us just how far we've fallen.

Brutal two years? I don't even think we'd notice pal, we're punch drunk at this stage.
Agreed
 
Old 28-12-2017, 10:05 PM
TheKitchenSink
 
Default

The PL this year has been fucking garbage in terms of competition between the have and have-nots, more so than most other years. Our football has been turgid almost the entire season and we're 2nd. Some way off City, granted, but still.

There are so many teams trying to be something they can't be, with fan expectations fueled to unrealistic levels by the influx of money from TV deals.

Look at some of the teams at the bottom and who they brought in to manage them. Swansea started off with Clement, who managed to cobble together a few decent results at the end of last season but totally bombed this season as they strive for "pretty" football above getting results. Now they've appointed Sheffield Wednesday's recently sacked manager. Why? Presumably because he has a fancy sounding foreign name and managed Lisbon and Besiktas. PL experience? None. Sacked with Sheffield Wednesday in 15th. Good luck with that.

Palace started the season with De Boer, another "name" with hardly any pedigree save for being sacked by Inter after six months. Utter fucking disaster and have ended up turning to Hodgson to save them. Probably a smart move as I think he'll keep them up, but the total mess he's inherited will take a while to fix and at his age he's not likely to be there very long anyway.

WBA's fans and board demanded "better" football from Pulis and the end result was a shitfest. Now he's gone and they've gone to the old managerial merry go around to appoint the overrated twat that is Pardew. Again, good luck with that one.

Meanwhile the likes of Huddersfield and Brighton have won 6 and 5 of 20 games respectively and sit 11th and 12th... are they good teams by PL standards? No, but they've both got managers who know the strengths and weaknesses of their teams and built accordingly. No major outlay of money but they are playing to their strengths, something so many teams this season either don't understand or won't accept.

It's no coincidence that Allardyce comes into Everton and immediately gets them rocketing up the table. One of the easiest jobs he's ever had. All they needed was somebody who understood how to best use the players available, but instead they had Koeman trying to play a style of football totally unsuited to the club and players. Dyche is another manager who gets shit on for his style of football, but the reason Burnley are 7th is because, again, they know what they're good at and stick to it. They aren't trying to be Barcelona and play "beautiful" football, if they did they'd be where Swansea and Palace are.

There are a lot of clubs in the PL who seem to have forgotten that football is a sport and ultimately about getting results. Entertainment is secondary to winning matches, especially when financially you can't compete with the top-tier clubs. I never particularly liked watching teams like Bolton, Blackburn, etc turn up and try to turn the match into a strange hybrid of rugby, football and wrestling, but at least they fucking competed at their home grounds. The limp-wristed nature of teams like Southampton, Swansea, Palace, Newcastle and so on is just pathetic to watch.

There's nothing wrong with having ambition, but you have to be realistic as well. Too many teams have been seduced by the idea of playing aesthetically pleasing football without having the financial clout or playing staff to back it up. Leicester didn't win the league by playing fancy football or hiring flashy foreign names. They brought in an experienced veteran in Ranieri who played to his team's strengths and was fortunate to challenge at a time when the better clubs were all fucking up to various degrees and Spurs were the closest thing to a title rival. It was only ever going to be a one off.

TL;DR: Too many clubs trying to be something they aren't has turned the Prem into a league full of teams with ideas way above their station and the result is a clusterfuck. If clubs realign their ambitions with reality then we will hopefully see a more balanced league next season (as far as balance in the PL goes, anyway).
 
Old 28-12-2017, 10:21 PM
saffers
 
Default

Deary me, and over half ours is in the last 3 years ffs
 
Old 28-12-2017, 11:19 PM
red in cumbria
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKitchenSink
The PL this year has been fucking garbage in terms of competition between the have and have-nots, more so than most other years. Our football has been turgid almost the entire season and we're 2nd. Some way off City, granted, but still.

There are so many teams trying to be something they can't be, with fan expectations fueled to unrealistic levels by the influx of money from TV deals.

Look at some of the teams at the bottom and who they brought in to manage them. Swansea started off with Clement, who managed to cobble together a few decent results at the end of last season but totally bombed this season as they strive for "pretty" football above getting results. Now they've appointed Sheffield Wednesday's recently sacked manager. Why? Presumably because he has a fancy sounding foreign name and managed Lisbon and Besiktas. PL experience? None. Sacked with Sheffield Wednesday in 15th. Good luck with that.

Palace started the season with De Boer, another "name" with hardly any pedigree save for being sacked by Inter after six months. Utter fucking disaster and have ended up turning to Hodgson to save them. Probably a smart move as I think he'll keep them up, but the total mess he's inherited will take a while to fix and at his age he's not likely to be there very long anyway.

WBA's fans and board demanded "better" football from Pulis and the end result was a shitfest. Now he's gone and they've gone to the old managerial merry go around to appoint the overrated twat that is Pardew. Again, good luck with that one.

Meanwhile the likes of Huddersfield and Brighton have won 6 and 5 of 20 games respectively and sit 11th and 12th... are they good teams by PL standards? No, but they've both got managers who know the strengths and weaknesses of their teams and built accordingly. No major outlay of money but they are playing to their strengths, something so many teams this season either don't understand or won't accept.

It's no coincidence that Allardyce comes into Everton and immediately gets them rocketing up the table. One of the easiest jobs he's ever had. All they needed was somebody who understood how to best use the players available, but instead they had Koeman trying to play a style of football totally unsuited to the club and players. Dyche is another manager who gets shit on for his style of football, but the reason Burnley are 7th is because, again, they know what they're good at and stick to it. They aren't trying to be Barcelona and play "beautiful" football, if they did they'd be where Swansea and Palace are.

There are a lot of clubs in the PL who seem to have forgotten that football is a sport and ultimately about getting results. Entertainment is secondary to winning matches, especially when financially you can't compete with the top-tier clubs. I never particularly liked watching teams like Bolton, Blackburn, etc turn up and try to turn the match into a strange hybrid of rugby, football and wrestling, but at least they fucking competed at their home grounds. The limp-wristed nature of teams like Southampton, Swansea, Palace, Newcastle and so on is just pathetic to watch.

There's nothing wrong with having ambition, but you have to be realistic as well. Too many teams have been seduced by the idea of playing aesthetically pleasing football without having the financial clout or playing staff to back it up. Leicester didn't win the league by playing fancy football or hiring flashy foreign names. They brought in an experienced veteran in Ranieri who played to his team's strengths and was fortunate to challenge at a time when the better clubs were all fucking up to various degrees and Spurs were the closest thing to a title rival. It was only ever going to be a one off.

TL;DR: Too many clubs trying to be something they aren't has turned the Prem into a league full of teams with ideas way above their station and the result is a clusterfuck. If clubs realign their ambitions with reality then we will hopefully see a more balanced league next season (as far as balance in the PL goes, anyway).
Good thoughtful post, pal.
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